I agree with Alyssa and Abby (and Rebecca) that it could be overwhelming, becuase to have something so powerful thrust upon you when you have no idea what it means could be overwhelming
I think she was crying because she felt the kind of sad hopeless feel of the poem, and even though she didn't understand what it said, she felt what it meant.
I think that she was just very overwhelmed with everything. Maybe the poem really did hit her and maybe she was upset that she had never read a poem before.
I disagree with Emily, I don't think that she could be more knowledgeable than Montag or anyone else. She is clueless along with Mildred (I don't mean to be harsh.) But I think she was frsutrated
Good point Rebecca, I think that we don't know enough about her at this point (her having the book and all) so I am not going to jump to any conclusions yet.
I think her reaction indicates she is reading and does understand what the poem is saying. Mildred obviously doesn't understand what it means which is why she reveals no emotions.
@Mmoritz, I agree with you. I believe she was extremely frustrated, and possibly Montag shinned a bit of light on the fact that people can actually think...?
I think the poem triggered Mrs. Phelp's inner, subconcious emotions but she couldn't really comprehend why it affected her on a deeper level. Her mind can't understand but her heart knows.
I understand where corey is coming from. I think that he underestimated Montag and didnt think that montag would do anything. I dont think that he wanted to be killed. I think he might have been in Montags position before and so his outlook on books is so negavtive
I agree with Nicole. Beatty knows what he is missing in books and knowledge, but he also knows the laws of his society and what they frown upon-so he's conflicted.
@ Megan - But, didn't they say that they didn't worry too much about their husbands at war...they come and they go? Has she always been this sad deep under?
I don't know that he necissarily want to die, he is just indifferent. He may have also tryed to toy with Montag, maybe breaking his will, as he had been trying to do by making him burn his own home.
Why isnt Beatty questioned for knowing so much about books and poetry? wouldnt people suspect him of reading books and wanting to read, or he used to want to read? Why isnt he pentalized
I agree with Corey. I think Beatty was being extremely annoying and taunting Montag to the point where Montag snapped. I think that any regular person would snap after such frustration and problems that have been in their lives.
I agree with Garrett and Corey that Beatty didnt want to die and that he was testing him in the end. I think of it like in some books and movies where they make someone so blinded by rage that they cant do what they were planning on.
@kara, i think that he isnt punished because he is a high authority figure and no one ever really suspects firemen of taking the books and if they do, it isnt a big deal.
Kara-- good point, I wondered that as well. How could Beatty know so much about the books, and be able to QUOTE books and know authors without having a signifigant ammount of knowledge on subjects pertaining to literature and books?
@Kara- Beatty isn't questioned because he has even more power due to his knowledge...it's like he's a double agent and can pick whichever side is better. The firemen definitely want him to stay on their side due to his tremendous amount of influence on different kinds of people.
@Inner circle--Could Beatty have possibly had the drive to make a difference , to make a change before and then he had to flip on his whole--I AM A FIREMAN character. In the end, he was just exhausted and defeated and felt like he was done? So he wanted to end his life?
@Moritz, I think that at one point he did feel the need to spark a revolution. He describes what Montag must be feeling to Montag, and it is nearly identical to what he had felt.
In response to Daniel I think that if Beatty was a stepping stone for montag he wouldn't be the person to do it himself he would just plant the seeds of an idea in someone who had the drive and resources to pull if off. Also Beatty had a lot to lose if he was going to do it.
@moritz question. I think thatBeatty may have wanted to make a change before. this is obvious by all of his knowledge with books.Maybe he was just trying to change until he got swept up into becoming the chief. If he wanted to change society in the end, why would he be negative towards montag? Didnt they have almost the same motive?
I do not think that Beatty was a generally GOOD person. I think, along with Montag, he was overwhelmed with the position and reputation he had to "keep up" for the firefighters and the socetiy. I think that he never wanted to spread the "good news of books and knowledge" in the world. I believe he was always the "bad guy" in the book; Bradburry never inteneded for him to be portrayed as the hero, in my opinion.
Like Mrs.Moritz is saying, he may have felt like he way trying to help Montag, but he wasn't coming across as helpful, but is suspicious to Montag. He couldn't help in the way he wanted to.
I agree with the fact that our society is better because we do have more rights and if you have an idea that it can be considered. But about txting and facebook it is true that you can't tell wether someone is being rude or just trying to help you.
Daniel: Your right, because all of our information can be aquired almost instantly rather than having to look all the way through a book. That was a good point that you had.
Nicole: I agree with you guys. Well duh, our society is better. We have so much more accessable information than they do, everything that is learnable in their society is all non- mind provoking.
Abby: I agree, we should know our neighbors and people around us because, like Corey said, were starting to become unconnected without realizing it. I mean, we are still connected (facebook, email) but not in a way that we should be.\
Continuing on Emily's comment...I actually think that it's a lot easier to be dishonest on Facebook rather than saying something outright. Even if you think something is anonymous, it can be traced back to you. And does anyone else here have a Formspring? People will say ANYTHING on those...
I think that our society is better. But if we dont change some of the errors in our society now, we can become society 451. Also, we do have knowledge and the ability to debate but we also have alot of hate and judgment in our society? does 451 has those aspects. Maybe that is what they mean by have peace in there society.
I disagree, our social lives are going down, but our social connections are going up. We may not know our neighbors well but we sure know where they went on thier last vacation, and where thier kids went to collage.
It is also hard to tell if someone is being serious via technology. If you say "I'm going to kill you," to one of your friends over text they may not realize its a joke.
@ Mrs. Moritz - I agree, people aren't necessarily LESS social, but we are definitley less about stating what's true. It is easier to sugar coat things, make yourself feel better if you don't have to talk to a person fact to face.
@Moritz I think that Beatty was once an active member in improving society with knowledge and books but then came to the realization that he could not change society and therefore, wanted to end his life.
I think that in our society we arn't as social, but, it doesn't necessarily have to be in a bad thing. We socialize in different ways. We also still have knowledge and the oppurtunity to do things, unlike in Montag's society. So, overall the different ways we communicate don't necessarily make our society bad.
Emily-- I agree with you about Facebook! It is so much easier these days to text or chat people virtually online. Just an example... if you were in a fight with a friend, would you rather settle it online, or face to face? Also, so many times these days the teen relationships have been broken through text message. Bradburry, having written the book in the 50's, did not know about text or facebook. So he would not have known the power of technology on our soceity today. My question is, Why would Montag's soceity want technology to take over our lives? If it leads to THIS?
our communication has gone down very easily. on formspring I dont think that it is good because it is annonamous and you will never find out who you are.
@michaela- Maybe it's just easier to allow technology to take over and not have to do things ourselves. Like Garret said, we want things fast and technology helps us with that.
I think that if our society took away technology, we would go back to the simple ways of life. In 451, when books are taken away the simplistic aspect goes away.
I think that with the screen and not knowing what theyre tone is, its kinda of obious what therye tone is especially if you know them if im texting like daniel and he says im going to kill you i know hes not going to come to my house and shoot me.
@maria: I agree with you, he has defeated an obstacle that could have been a problem. But the Hound...?
@Mikaela: I just ment that I don't think that he was to be portrayed as a hero in the book, or one that would spread the word about books and knowledge
I agree with Mrs. Moritz - It's easier to decide what you want the emotion to be in a text..rather than see the person's facial, body, or verbal expressions.
If someone posts something anonymously it's because they don't have the courage to tell them face to face and if you're scared to tell them face to face it's probably better left unsaid.
I totally agree with you Nicole!! The body language issue, I can't tell you how many dirty looks and glares I have gotten from random people because I accidently give them a look I don't mean to. Body lanuage is a HUGE part of verbal language, and if it is portrayed the wrong way, people won't give you the time of day.
@Maria...I agree. I'd be much more offended if someone told me something important over the computer. If they take the time to tell me in person I know they actually care about my opinion.
@Maria I think it hurts more to see it over a hurtful message on a screen because there is no emotion behind it and it's harder to solve a conflict through technology.
Dan-- once I lost my phone, and didn't have it for a few weeks. Technology takes over our lives in such a powerful and in my opinion, negative way, that I was a total mess when I couldn't text my friends.
So with texing, you see the words and we talk about how its a bada form of communitcating so what is a book? its words on a page so how does it differ from texting?
I dont think that our society would become like this because we are like social animals. We want to be together and do things together which would lead to more organizing and speeding up. The early americans started with nothing and they just kept speeding up and getting better.
@Emma: I don't think that we, indivudally, can stop the rapid advance of technology. Some time in our future possibly Bradburry's predictions will come true (hopefully not). But like what Mrs. Moritz said, I don't think that people (English Teachers)would allow such a thing to happen.
I think that if he wants to make a change he has to stop running away. He will be caught anyway so he needs to work on convincing people of his thoughts on books. I agree with Becca, he needs to think of what was the one thing he would say to the authorities if he was caught.
If Montag is not caught I think he has enough passion and strength to be able to change society but he lacks patience, which is necessary when you are fighting for a cause.
@Everyone- I think our society loves books--electronic or paperback. Look at the ridiculous bookstores we have. So I am pretty sure no one would want to burn the books. I guess I wouldn't die (like the old woman) for books, but I would hide them and teach my own children with them, if need be.
I absolutely agree with Rebecca, he could become the "old woman" for him, to someone else. And that would continue the change back to the use of books.
Moritz! Your right! My dad has an Ipad and I find myself reading more short books on that than I would usually buy, because it is easier and more convienent.
@ Mrs. Moritz. I agree, in the books's socitey the government banned the books, most of our presidents have written books so I think that our governmentwould never ban books.
I agree, the war still confuses me alot. was the war brought on because of the incident with montag or was this something else? who are they fighting with and what are they fighting over? @kelsy if these wars are so short, are they meaningful.
I agree with Mrs. Moritz that although we use the internet much more than actually reading a book, some people read books or articles or newspapers on the internet.
I think the war will help Montag's cause. The President will be focused on more important issues than a renegade fireman. While they deal with that, Montag will fire up the nation (maybe...)
@Moritz... I sort of agree. We love books. But is there really any book in Amearica that EVERYONE loves? Im sure every book out there has been offensive to someone at one point in time. And I feel as though before the books were burned in the book, there was some racial tension that got certain minorities angry about certain literature.
Personally I prefer a real book to an ipad. I like to read but there's something about having the actual book that is so much more appealing than a screen.
@Moritz- That would be a good idea, and its similar what Clarisse's family did. They obviously had some sort of knowledge that they shared with their children to keep the knowledge of books and their content in the society.
Where is religion in this society? It is one of those things that you'd think they would get rid of, but faber was talking about how you don't see Jesus unless he's selling a product.
What happened to things like 'No Child Left Behind?' I think that past presidents would be very disappointed with the current 'land of the free and the home of the brave'. And what kind of society votes for someone based on looks? It sounds like a bad season of American Idol.
@Kara I think that the war has been coming for a while from a conflict before Montag had even started reading books but I think the war was started because of books and knowledge.
I think Montag is special because he was in the right circumstances- he's curious, he's been exposed to knowledge, and, frankly, his home life kinda sucked. Plus he was starting to question authority and his OWN purpose, which is pretty much a basis for revolution.
Very good Nicole :) Yes, this relates to Lady Macbeth, with "washing the blood off the hands". I agree with Natalie that it is symbolic of guilt, EXACTLY like Macbeth.
@Moritz I think that it started with Clarisse but i think society drove him to the edge overall. He was tired of routine and just doing what everyone told him to.
I vote all three- like a snowball effect, one gets the ball rolling (Clarisse) another pushes it down a hill (old woman)and finally starts to gain speed and volume (Beatty). It can't be attributed to only one person.
I agree with Mark...the few times Montag spent with Clarisee, she said some powerful things...that definitley changed him, we don't seem to remember that often enough.
@ Mark Clarrise is dead, she was useful for getting Montag thinking but now I think we need to keep current with the characters because she isn't doing anything anymore the other characters are.
I think that the government might have set up the election. They wanted the ugly, gross man to get less votes because maybe he didn't go along with what the government wanted. The attractive man, on the other hand, would probably carry out everything that the government would want. They knew that these people in their society did not care much about actual ideas. It could have been a set up.
Mrs. Moritz... Imagining the Election 2 years ago, I want to imagine what a discussion in Montag's time would be like. (Pretty bland, I'm guessing) Also, I don't think it's fair for people to just randomly vote. It's almost like... either vote for your true opinion, or don't vote at all.
@becca. we dont know our presidents, but we get our ideas on them based on there ideals and thoughts. I understand where you are coming from. Is that right that we vote for people that we dont even know? even if we met these politicians we dont really know these people, just by meeting the president doesnt mean you know what they are like, how they will act and if they are right or wrong. i agree with moritz i think that we are more like these women then we think.
As for 15 year olds voting...I'm pretty sure I got voted into Student Council because I'm friends with more people, not because I was the best qualified...haha. (: Elections are a popularity contest for uninformed people.
I agree with Mrs.Moritz. Most people don't actually decide who'what to vote for based on their values. They either jump on the bandwagon, follow their parents, or just go based on looks. Our society has lost its involvement in politics.
@Grace: I think you might be right that elections these days are based on popularity. I came from a school and only knew about 5 people, all who never ran for a position. I didn't know a single person on the ballot list, so @Kara, we ARE more like those women than we think.
Books... A major topic in this book. I was just thinking, books are becoming more and more digital in our society (Like my Ipad comment). I want to go back to what I said. I also saw Griffen say, who needs a bookstore if you have a library? I think this a great point because, I know, reading books on the Ipad is fun and easy. I stumbled apon a thought of books, that are real and books that you can physically touch. Have you ever seen a massive library? I think a real book has something much deeper and much more of a "story" to tell, as well as its own story. Seeing that many books in a library is just a phenominal sight to see. A physical book has much more depth and physical traits, than a text on a screen book has. As cool as those new books may be, the digital side of books (which is becoming ovewhelming) has nothing to stand up to a "REAL" book. Sorry if you read this and thought that it did not relate to anything or it was a waste of time.
@garrett, I hate the political ads. But, they do make me wonder what the canidates are like. Technology does leave somesort of infulence on the person, and as in this example, the political ads on TV.
I'm so annoyed by the ads I'm ready for the amendment about senator elections to be repealed...is that considered not caring? I just want it to be over already!
I agree with Garrett. To me books are like a little piece of memory...it's a visual thing though. The books I love are trashed, with pages ripped and food spilled on them, but that way I remember the places I took them, and what food I was eating while reading. Haha.
I agree with Alyssa and Abby (and Rebecca) that it could be overwhelming, becuase to have something so powerful thrust upon you when you have no idea what it means could be overwhelming
ReplyDeleteI think that she had never realized what books are really like. It had meaning and substance, unlike other daily life.
ReplyDeletei think that the revelation made her cry
ReplyDeleteI think she was crying because she felt the kind of sad hopeless feel of the poem, and even though she didn't understand what it said, she felt what it meant.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Mrs. Phelps understands it, it's just too overwhelming for her.
ReplyDeleteI think that she was just very overwhelmed with everything. Maybe the poem really did hit her and maybe she was upset that she had never read a poem before.
ReplyDelete@ Griffin - What revelation?
ReplyDeleteI think that she was cruing because she was trying really hard to understand it but she couldn't and that was very frustrating to her.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Emily, I don't think that she could be more knowledgeable than Montag or anyone else. She is clueless along with Mildred (I don't mean to be harsh.) But I think she was frsutrated
ReplyDeleteGood point Rebecca, I think that we don't know enough about her at this point (her having the book and all) so I am not going to jump to any conclusions yet.
ReplyDeleteI think it could be one of three things: 1) She was frustrated because she couldn't understand it. 2) She was afraid. 3) She's just dumb.
ReplyDeleteI remember the poem mentioning war and maybe the fact that her husband is serving in the war it uncovered some hidden emotions.
ReplyDeleteshe was crying because it is something very different than what she is used to.
ReplyDeleteI think her reaction indicates she is reading and does understand what the poem is saying. Mildred obviously doesn't understand what it means which is why she reveals no emotions.
ReplyDelete@Mmoritz, I agree with you. I believe she was extremely frustrated, and possibly Montag shinned a bit of light on the fact that people can actually think...?
ReplyDeleteI think the poem triggered Mrs. Phelp's inner, subconcious emotions but she couldn't really comprehend why it affected her on a deeper level. Her mind can't understand but her heart knows.
ReplyDelete@mikeala the revelation of what was in books and how they can change you
ReplyDeleteI understand where corey is coming from. I think that he underestimated Montag and didnt think that montag would do anything. I dont think that he wanted to be killed. I think he might have been in Montags position before and so his outlook on books is so negavtive
ReplyDeleteI agree with Nicole. Beatty knows what he is missing in books and knowledge, but he also knows the laws of his society and what they frown upon-so he's conflicted.
ReplyDelete@ Megan - But, didn't they say that they didn't worry too much about their husbands at war...they come and they go? Has she always been this sad deep under?
ReplyDeleteI don't know that he necissarily want to die, he is just indifferent. He may have also tryed to toy with Montag, maybe breaking his will, as he had been trying to do by making him burn his own home.
ReplyDeletei like Mrs. Moritz's option #3
ReplyDelete@Holly... You bring up a good point, why is she crying and not Mildred?
ReplyDeleteI agree with abby where he isnt testing him, just making sure that he knows who is in charge.
ReplyDeleteBeatty, i think is alot more knoledeable then just reading a few books to see that theyre useless like he told montag at first.
ReplyDeleteWhy isnt Beatty questioned for knowing so much about books and poetry? wouldnt people suspect him of reading books and wanting to read, or he used to want to read? Why isnt he pentalized
ReplyDeleteI agree with Corey. I think Beatty was being extremely annoying and taunting Montag to the point where Montag snapped. I think that any regular person would snap after such frustration and problems that have been in their lives.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Garrett and Corey that Beatty didnt want to die and that he was testing him in the end. I think of it like in some books and movies where they make someone so blinded by rage that they cant do what they were planning on.
ReplyDeleteBeatty is the kind of man to do what society says, instead of revolt and try to get books into the world.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Nicole. Beatty is a large object in Montag's way, he is a big figure in society too.
@kara, i think that he isnt punished because he is a high authority figure and no one ever really suspects firemen of taking the books and if they do, it isnt a big deal.
ReplyDeleteKara-- good point, I wondered that as well. How could Beatty know so much about the books, and be able to QUOTE books and know authors without having a signifigant ammount of knowledge on subjects pertaining to literature and books?
ReplyDelete@Kara, He is the law. He is above it, and has the authority to punish anyone that grows suspicous.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Natalie... Wasn't Beatty the one who said that there was "nothing" within books?
ReplyDelete@Kara- Beatty isn't questioned because he has even more power due to his knowledge...it's like he's a double agent and can pick whichever side is better. The firemen definitely want him to stay on their side due to his tremendous amount of influence on different kinds of people.
ReplyDelete@Kara I think that because he refuses books and knowledge repeatedly no one sees him as a threat to society.
ReplyDelete@ Michaela - How do we know that Beatty doesn't have a significat amount of knowledge?
ReplyDeletei agree with nicole that its now maotags time the other people have let theirs pass
ReplyDelete@Inner circle--Could Beatty have possibly had the drive to make a difference , to make a change before and then he had to flip on his whole--I AM A FIREMAN character. In the end, he was just exhausted and defeated and felt like he was done? So he wanted to end his life?
ReplyDeleteDo you think Beatty's death will leave a positive infulence on Montag's journey, or a nedgative one?
ReplyDeleteI think that Beatty's was changed in a way that, at this point, no one has enough information to understand.
ReplyDelete@Moritz, I think that at one point he did feel the need to spark a revolution. He describes what Montag must be feeling to Montag, and it is nearly identical to what he had felt.
ReplyDelete*negative
ReplyDeleteIn response to Daniel I think that if Beatty was a stepping stone for montag he wouldn't be the person to do it himself he would just plant the seeds of an idea in someone who had the drive and resources to pull if off. Also Beatty had a lot to lose if he was going to do it.
ReplyDeletebut what are those benifits? Yes they are fast, but what Really are they getting?
ReplyDeletei dont think there are benfits to that society there is no real life your just put on a track to follow along where people want you to go
ReplyDeleteCorrection Daniel--you have a lot more access to knowledge. :)
ReplyDelete@moritz question. I think thatBeatty may have wanted to make a change before. this is obvious by all of his knowledge with books.Maybe he was just trying to change until he got swept up into becoming the chief. If he wanted to change society in the end, why would he be negative towards montag? Didnt they have almost the same motive?
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz - I think Beatty had a reputation to uphold...and it could throw off society if he were to revolt.
ReplyDeleteI think that the perfect balance in society is unlimited knowledge but face to face communication and a slower paced life is not rejected.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that Beatty was a generally GOOD person. I think, along with Montag, he was overwhelmed with the position and reputation he had to "keep up" for the firefighters and the socetiy. I think that he never wanted to spread the "good news of books and knowledge" in the world. I believe he was always the "bad guy" in the book; Bradburry never inteneded for him to be portrayed as the hero, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteLike Mrs.Moritz is saying, he may have felt like he way trying to help Montag, but he wasn't coming across as helpful, but is suspicious to Montag. He couldn't help in the way he wanted to.
ReplyDelete@Michaela... I think it can be both... He has defeated a large obstical, but at the same time he has gotten himself into trouble by killing him.
ReplyDeleteIt is so easy to be brave to a screen.
ReplyDelete@ Michaela - Why do you think Beatty wasn't a GOOD person?
ReplyDeleteI agree with the fact that our society is better because we do have more rights and if you have an idea that it can be considered. But about txting and facebook it is true that you can't tell wether someone is being rude or just trying to help you.
ReplyDeleteDaniel: Your right, because all of our information can be aquired almost instantly rather than having to look all the way through a book. That was a good point that you had.
ReplyDeleteNicole: I agree with you guys. Well duh, our society is better. We have so much more accessable information than they do, everything that is learnable in their society is all non- mind provoking.
Abby: I agree, we should know our neighbors and people around us because, like Corey said, were starting to become unconnected without realizing it. I mean, we are still connected (facebook, email) but not in a way that we should be.\
Continuing on Emily's comment...I actually think that it's a lot easier to be dishonest on Facebook rather than saying something outright. Even if you think something is anonymous, it can be traced back to you. And does anyone else here have a Formspring? People will say ANYTHING on those...
ReplyDeleteI think that our society is better. But if we dont change some of the errors in our society now, we can become society 451. Also, we do have knowledge and the ability to debate but we also have alot of hate and judgment in our society? does 451 has those aspects. Maybe that is what they mean by have peace in there society.
ReplyDeleteI disagree, our social lives are going down, but our social connections are going up. We may not know our neighbors well but we sure know where they went on thier last vacation, and where thier kids went to collage.
ReplyDeletei agree with mrs. moritz its ptetty easy to put on an affectation of brvery
ReplyDeleteIt is also hard to tell if someone is being serious via technology. If you say "I'm going to kill you," to one of your friends over text they may not realize its a joke.
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz - I agree, people aren't necessarily LESS social, but we are definitley less about stating what's true. It is easier to sugar coat things, make yourself feel better if you don't have to talk to a person fact to face.
ReplyDelete@Moritz I think that Beatty was once an active member in improving society with knowledge and books but then came to the realization that he could not change society and therefore, wanted to end his life.
ReplyDeleteI think that in our society we arn't as social, but, it doesn't necessarily have to be in a bad thing. We socialize in different ways. We also still have knowledge and the oppurtunity to do things, unlike in Montag's society. So, overall the different ways we communicate don't necessarily make our society bad.
ReplyDeleteEmily-- I agree with you about Facebook! It is so much easier these days to text or chat people virtually online. Just an example... if you were in a fight with a friend, would you rather settle it online, or face to face? Also, so many times these days the teen relationships have been broken through text message. Bradburry, having written the book in the 50's, did not know about text or facebook. So he would not have known the power of technology on our soceity today. My question is, Why would Montag's soceity want technology to take over our lives? If it leads to THIS?
ReplyDelete@ Jack - isn't it a bit weird to know that about a person, but non know their name?
ReplyDeleteour communication has gone down very easily. on formspring I dont think that it is good because it is annonamous and you will never find out who you are.
ReplyDeleteI think that it is easier to be brave on a screen because there is no emotion it is just words.
ReplyDeleteI agree with mikaela that we still communicate but we just communicate in a faster less sincere way.
ReplyDelete@Grace... Haha! Yes i totally agree with you!
ReplyDelete@ Kara: Agreed. I think your right because we don't realizae all the "fast" things that are happening in life.
ReplyDeletewho says it has to be instantanious just learn to wait a little
ReplyDelete@michaela- Maybe it's just easier to allow technology to take over and not have to do things ourselves. Like Garret said, we want things fast and technology helps us with that.
ReplyDeletewhat is rateyourteacher?
ReplyDeleteMontag's society is one of instant gratification but it reminds me of ours today.
ReplyDeleteI think that if our society took away technology, we would go back to the simple ways of life. In 451, when books are taken away the simplistic aspect goes away.
ReplyDeleteI think that with the screen and not knowing what theyre tone is, its kinda of obious what therye tone is especially if you know them if im texting like daniel and he says im going to kill you i know hes not going to come to my house and shoot me.
ReplyDelete@maria: I agree with you, he has defeated an obstacle that could have been a problem. But the Hound...?
ReplyDelete@Mikaela: I just ment that I don't think that he was to be portrayed as a hero in the book, or one that would spread the word about books and knowledge
It's quicker to go to dictionary.com or text your friend. Instead of meet for lunch or pull out a dictionary...we want it NOW...NOW...NOW!!!
ReplyDelete@Griffin, I agree, it would be great to be able to slow down. However, society prohibits us from taking time.
ReplyDeleteLIke what Grace said people say things anonamously that they would nevere say if their name was on it.
ReplyDelete@Emma: If we allow technology to take over our lives, aren't we just giving up?
ReplyDeleteAs brave as you can be over a screen... Consider the other side... Does it hurt less to see rude or mean things over technology? I think not.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mrs. Moritz - It's easier to decide what you want the emotion to be in a text..rather than see the person's facial, body, or verbal expressions.
ReplyDeleteIf someone posts something anonymously it's because they don't have the courage to tell them face to face and if you're scared to tell them face to face it's probably better left unsaid.
ReplyDeleteif there isnt a chance to have something traced to you then you're a lot more likley to be out of person with your comments
ReplyDeleteOn this blog can't things be interpreted in different ways?
ReplyDelete@Garrett being optimistic is great but there is a time where you have to stop being nice.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you Nicole!! The body language issue, I can't tell you how many dirty looks and glares I have gotten from random people because I accidently give them a look I don't mean to. Body lanuage is a HUGE part of verbal language, and if it is portrayed the wrong way, people won't give you the time of day.
ReplyDeleteHow did we get on this topic?
ReplyDelete@michaela-I agree with you on that, but how can we stop technological advances?
ReplyDelete@ garrettd if you're always an optimist the n you get a lot more dreams crushed
ReplyDelete@Grace- those formspings are crazy! And do we all have different personalities online, on the phone and in person?
ReplyDelete@Maria...I agree. I'd be much more offended if someone told me something important over the computer. If they take the time to tell me in person I know they actually care about my opinion.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Moritz...that's exactly what I was thinking..how does this connect to the book?
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure English teachers wouldn't allow books to be burned.
ReplyDelete@Maria I think it hurts more to see it over a hurtful message on a screen because there is no emotion behind it and it's harder to solve a conflict through technology.
ReplyDelete@Hannah... You have a wonderful point ;)
ReplyDeleteWhat in our society is equivalent to books in this society? Is it just one thing?
ReplyDeleteDan-- once I lost my phone, and didn't have it for a few weeks. Technology takes over our lives in such a powerful and in my opinion, negative way, that I was a total mess when I couldn't text my friends.
ReplyDeleteSo with texing, you see the words and we talk about how its a bada form of communitcating so what is a book? its words on a page so how does it differ from texting?
ReplyDeleteMrs. Moritz - Why not?
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. MOritz: but what could teachers do about it
ReplyDelete@Moritz- What about Faber? He was a professor...and just watched things go downhill.
ReplyDeleteHaha nice one Moritz. I just invisioned a group of teachers holding weapons and destroying anyone who trys to touch a book.
ReplyDelete@becca. If our technology was taken away would some of the expectations that people have of students, teachers, workers, families go down?
ReplyDelete@Daniel, Life would be much different. I don't think our society could survive in the way it has. We thrive on the instant.
ReplyDelete@Grace and Megan... I agree with you guys. Over technology isnt the way to go!
ReplyDeleteI dont think that our society would become like this because we are like social animals. We want to be together and do things together which would lead to more organizing and speeding up. The early americans started with nothing and they just kept speeding up and getting better.
ReplyDeletei agree with Kara there would be less info so there would be less chance to do good work
ReplyDelete@Emma: I don't think that we, indivudally, can stop the rapid advance of technology. Some time in our future possibly Bradburry's predictions will come true (hopefully not). But like what Mrs. Moritz said, I don't think that people (English Teachers)would allow such a thing to happen.
ReplyDeleteHe could for sure change society, but I don't think he could do it alone, no one can when the gov. is a mystery.
ReplyDeleteI think that if he wants to make a change he has to stop running away. He will be caught anyway so he needs to work on convincing people of his thoughts on books. I agree with Becca, he needs to think of what was the one thing he would say to the authorities if he was caught.
ReplyDeleteI think the revolution is already starting because people like Montag are "snapping out" of their society, and realizing the truth that they need to.
ReplyDeleteIf Montag is not caught I think he has enough passion and strength to be able to change society but he lacks patience, which is necessary when you are fighting for a cause.
ReplyDelete@Everyone- I think our society loves books--electronic or paperback. Look at the ridiculous bookstores we have. So I am pretty sure no one would want to burn the books. I guess I wouldn't die (like the old woman) for books, but I would hide them and teach my own children with them, if need be.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree with Rebecca, he could become the "old woman" for him, to someone else. And that would continue the change back to the use of books.
ReplyDelete@Megan: How can he stop it?
ReplyDeleteMoritz! Your right! My dad has an Ipad and I find myself reading more short books on that than I would usually buy, because it is easier and more convienent.
ReplyDeleteDo you think the war will reach montag? an if so ow will effect his cause?
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz who needs a bookstore when you canhave an ipad
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mrs. Moritz - I wouldn't die, but I would still read/teach children about books.
ReplyDelete@Moritz: I agree with you. I would hide books, but I wouldn't necessarly die for them.
ReplyDelete...
Would anyone else hide books? DIE for them?
@ Mrs. Moritz. I agree, in the books's socitey the government banned the books, most of our presidents have written books so I think that our governmentwould never ban books.
ReplyDeleteI agree, the war still confuses me alot. was the war brought on because of the incident with montag or was this something else? who are they fighting with and what are they fighting over? @kelsy if these wars are so short, are they meaningful.
ReplyDelete@ Jack - how would that effect him at all?
ReplyDelete@Michaela what do you mean by how can he stop it?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mrs. Moritz that although we use the internet much more than actually reading a book, some people read books or articles or newspapers on the internet.
ReplyDeleteI would hide them absolutely. I would not die for them, but I may fight for them.
ReplyDeleteI think the war will help Montag's cause. The President will be focused on more important issues than a renegade fireman. While they deal with that, Montag will fire up the nation (maybe...)
ReplyDelete@Moritz... I sort of agree. We love books. But is there really any book in Amearica that EVERYONE loves? Im sure every book out there has been offensive to someone at one point in time. And I feel as though before the books were burned in the book, there was some racial tension that got certain minorities angry about certain literature.
ReplyDeleteI respect the ladies' (in the book) optimism, yet I disagree with their belief on death (That once they are dead, they don't matter).
ReplyDeletePersonally I prefer a real book to an ipad. I like to read but there's something about having the actual book that is so much more appealing than a screen.
ReplyDeletein the society is there even writing or has that been phased out too
ReplyDeleteAnd again, what does that say about the relationships in the book?
ReplyDelete@Megan: how can he stop technology from advancing?
ReplyDelete@Moritz- That would be a good idea, and its similar what Clarisse's family did. They obviously had some sort of knowledge that they shared with their children to keep the knowledge of books and their content in the society.
ReplyDeleteIs it me or does this story remind me of the book of Eli? (the movie)
ReplyDeleteWhere is religion in this society? It is one of those things that you'd think they would get rid of, but faber was talking about how you don't see Jesus unless he's selling a product.
ReplyDeletethe whole concept of family is gone because of the autopilot
ReplyDelete@ Moritz - Relationships are just THERE, they have little to no value.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to things like 'No Child Left Behind?' I think that past presidents would be very disappointed with the current 'land of the free and the home of the brave'. And what kind of society votes for someone based on looks? It sounds like a bad season of American Idol.
ReplyDeleteI think that the relationships are like those of animals, no real love just a necessatity.
ReplyDelete@Kara I think that the war has been coming for a while from a conflict before Montag had even started reading books but I think the war was started because of books and knowledge.
ReplyDeleteIf these people that are educated and knowledgable, why dont they fight out? will montag be the one to inspire these people?
ReplyDeleteCorey: Wouldn't the revolution have happened by now? Or how long have books been burnt?
ReplyDeleteAre there political parties because there is a President and an election but from what I saw people vote for their candidate based on looks.
ReplyDelete@Moritz- They aren't real. No one gets married for love, they marry as a requirement.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the war over?
ReplyDeleteWell hes in a position to do this, yea garret it is becaus ehe is a fireman, in the eyes of society he's untouchable.
ReplyDelete@Mikaela I'm not sure but it will definitely require a lot of help.
ReplyDeleteI think Montag is special because he was in the right circumstances- he's curious, he's been exposed to knowledge, and, frankly, his home life kinda sucked. Plus he was starting to question authority and his OWN purpose, which is pretty much a basis for revolution.
ReplyDeleteLike Nicole said...the have kids to repopulate, marriage because everone else does too.
ReplyDeleteSo if Montag is going to be the Pariah, so to speak, who drove him to this role? Clarisse? The old woman? Beatty?
ReplyDeleteVery good Nicole :) Yes, this relates to Lady Macbeth, with "washing the blood off the hands". I agree with Natalie that it is symbolic of guilt, EXACTLY like Macbeth.
ReplyDeleteMoritz: Clarrise! I think that we need to bring her up more often in these because we are all acting like she never did anything
ReplyDeletei think the old woman did because he saw how much people can love books and that showed him they were something worth fighting for
ReplyDelete@Mark: I think that Clariese is gone, sadly. :( But nevertheless, she was the once who really sparked the thought into Montag
ReplyDeleteClarisse was the one that triggered all of this. She caused Montag to really look at his life in a more critical manner.
ReplyDeleteI agree Mark, we don't talk enough about what she did to get us to this point.
ReplyDelete@Moritz I think that it started with Clarisse but i think society drove him to the edge overall. He was tired of routine and just doing what everyone told him to.
ReplyDeleteI vote all three- like a snowball effect, one gets the ball rolling (Clarisse) another pushes it down a hill (old woman)and finally starts to gain speed and volume (Beatty). It can't be attributed to only one person.
ReplyDeleteknowledge means power and the "government" in this society wants to stay in power.
ReplyDeleteI agree with nicole. They are naive.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mark...the few times Montag spent with Clarisee, she said some powerful things...that definitley changed him, we don't seem to remember that often enough.
ReplyDelete@ mark clarisse is dead and her time to make change passed, she opened the window to books for montag but the old lady knocked the wall down
ReplyDeleteI agree with Holly... What kind of situation would they be in right now if Clarisse hadnt been there in the first place?
ReplyDelete@Hannah, Exactly.
ReplyDelete@ Mark Clarrise is dead, she was useful for getting Montag thinking but now I think we need to keep current with the characters because she isn't doing anything anymore the other characters are.
ReplyDeleteGrace is right...no one person invoked all of this within Montag.
ReplyDeleteI agree Grace, that's exactly how I picture it.
ReplyDeletegarrett and i just said the same thing weird
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ReplyDeleteI agree with Hannah, knowledge threatens the government's tight grip on society.
ReplyDeleteI think that the government might have set up the election. They wanted the ugly, gross man to get less votes because maybe he didn't go along with what the government wanted. The attractive man, on the other hand, would probably carry out everything that the government would want. They knew that these people in their society did not care much about actual ideas. It could have been a set up.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Moritz... Imagining the Election 2 years ago, I want to imagine what a discussion in Montag's time would be like. (Pretty bland, I'm guessing) Also, I don't think it's fair for people to just randomly vote. It's almost like... either vote for your true opinion, or don't vote at all.
ReplyDelete@ Garret and Griffin - I doesn't really matter that Clarisee is dead. She was the one who got Montag thinking.
ReplyDelete@becca. we dont know our presidents, but we get our ideas on them based on there ideals and thoughts. I understand where you are coming from. Is that right that we vote for people that we dont even know? even if we met these politicians we dont really know these people, just by meeting the president doesnt mean you know what they are like, how they will act and if they are right or wrong. i agree with moritz i think that we are more like these women then we think.
ReplyDeleteAs for 15 year olds voting...I'm pretty sure I got voted into Student Council because I'm friends with more people, not because I was the best qualified...haha. (: Elections are a popularity contest for uninformed people.
ReplyDelete@Emma GOOD POINT! I agree that the government is behind he handsome man and wants everyone to vote for him because he's easy to control.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mrs.Moritz. Most people don't actually decide who'what to vote for based on their values. They either jump on the bandwagon, follow their parents, or just go based on looks. Our society has lost its involvement in politics.
ReplyDeleteIm sorry... Did Nicole just ask how can you not care about politics?
ReplyDelete@Grace: I think you might be right that elections these days are based on popularity. I came from a school and only knew about 5 people, all who never ran for a position. I didn't know a single person on the ballot list, so @Kara, we ARE more like those women than we think.
ReplyDelete@Grace...I like your snowball effect example and I agree with you. I think all three people somewhat contributed to Montag's desire to change society.
ReplyDeleteyes she did @Maria :)
ReplyDelete@Mikeala clarisse is like a ford model T the old lady is a ferrari
ReplyDeleteBooks... A major topic in this book. I was just thinking, books are becoming more and more digital in our society (Like my Ipad comment). I want to go back to what I said. I also saw Griffen say, who needs a bookstore if you have a library? I think this a great point because, I know, reading books on the Ipad is fun and easy. I stumbled apon a thought of books, that are real and books that you can physically touch. Have you ever seen a massive library? I think a real book has something much deeper and much more of a "story" to tell, as well as its own story. Seeing that many books in a library is just a phenominal sight to see. A physical book has much more depth and physical traits, than a text on a screen book has. As cool as those new books may be, the digital side of books (which is becoming ovewhelming) has nothing to stand up to a "REAL" book. Sorry if you read this and thought that it did not relate to anything or it was a waste of time.
ReplyDeleteI think that a lot of people who aren't involved in government just vote for who has the coolest name or who is the friendliest.
ReplyDeleteI guess I am contradicting myself...
ReplyDeleteI agree with Maria It's really hard not to care, if you hate someone or their ads then you care a little bit.
ReplyDelete****who needs a bookstore if you have a library? **** I meant he said "who needs a bookstore if you have an ipad... sorry
ReplyDelete@ Griffin - What??
ReplyDelete@mark dont make a post that long i lose interest and you spelled my name wrong but i agree with you
ReplyDelete@garrett, I hate the political ads. But, they do make me wonder what the canidates are like. Technology does leave somesort of infulence on the person, and as in this example, the political ads on TV.
ReplyDeleteI'm so annoyed by the ads I'm ready for the amendment about senator elections to be repealed...is that considered not caring? I just want it to be over already!
ReplyDelete@Mark and Griffin, I think reading on an ipad would be fun but I like tobe able to touch and turn the pages physically.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mark reading the real thing is more authentic or real compared to reading a story on the ipad.
ReplyDelete@Natalie- I would agree with you, that something really has to happen for the book to leave an influence on me
ReplyDeleteI agree with Garrett. To me books are like a little piece of memory...it's a visual thing though. The books I love are trashed, with pages ripped and food spilled on them, but that way I remember the places I took them, and what food I was eating while reading. Haha.
ReplyDeleteWhen Griffin said not to make posts so long that goes back to the wayour society is one of instant gratification, we dont want to take time.
ReplyDelete