The hound not thinking anything you don't want it to think relates to the governmental control because the government wants to make everything perfect. They want your mind to stay on track. The total mind control hasn't appeared yet in this story, unlike "Harrison Bergeron". The government wants you to not be competitive in your mindset.
I think that the dog not thinking anything they don't want it to think relate to the people in that the government knid of controls the people in their own society and how they act. They don't do anything out of the usual and don't ask questions either, or they think questions and are almost afraid to publically ask them.
Society is run by the government in Fahrenheit 451. No one really cares about the world around them, and everyone just goes with the flow. Clarisse, however, is the exception to the monotony of society. Montag used to be a part of this society, but starts to question his ways and his culture after he meets Clarisse.
the qoute, "it doesnt think anything we dont want it to think" is an example of how the government is totally taking over everyone's thought process and make them totally incapabale of thinking for themselves. The people get so accustomed to and used to their day by day system of waking up, eating, watching tv, sleeping and repeating. I feel like montag finally starts to get a hold on reality and recognizes that people are being brainwashed and can't truly act for themselves.
The government controls people's lives by the media, which sets the "standard" for a happy life. The earbuds that mildred wears keep her isolated from the world and so that the government can control her thoughts
The people in the city are pretty much programmed to do the same things routinely every day. We don't know if the government has done this or it's just human evolution.
The government is just controlling every person by limiting the amount of knowledge that they receive. People are not allowed to have books because they possess knowledge that the people don’t know. There for the people cannot have the books. This is related to the hound because the hound is controlled and not allowed to think his own thoughts and have his own will. This is like the government controlling the people
The society in Fahrenheit 451 all conforms to one way of being. The mechanical dog is the workhorse for the government in this book. Like any government worker, like Montag, the dog does not go outside it's boundries' or at least is not supposed to. The Dog is the perfect follower to the rules because it can do no other. It makes one wonder why the fire department isn't headed and maintianed by robots rather than men who could potentially think for themselves.
This relates to the contemporary world in the ways of censoring. Eventually, like in Harrison Bergeron, everyone will be so censored to the point that life has no meaning. Montag is woken up from his delusional place in society with the question,"Are you happy?"
The hound is used to symbolize society, they both don't think freely. It is much like the pedestrian when someone who thinks freely is thought of as insane.
Clarisse has the thoughts that are simple and were once accepted in society but in the modern-day Fahrenheit 451 society has placed that anyone who daydreams or "thinks outside the box" is crazy.
I also agree with Rae, the dog is a robot, programed and day-by-day the same, different from what a real dog should be, playful, kind, and spontaneous. This matches the society in the book.
Clarice "takes his mask of happiness away" making him face the truth in his life. He is openly unhappy and more honest with himself. She is slowly opening his eyes to see what the government doesnt want him to see, the fact that the world is unhappy.
Clarisse is like the idea of freedom in the book and when she talks to Montag he cant help but get sucked into her world of freedom through his thoughts. His thoughts go towards things that are forbidden but those things seem to be forbidden for no reason in my opinion.
Clarice is affecting Montag in a positive way. He is starting to really think and think for himself. This isn’t what the government wants, but he is starting to realize that.
Clarise is the influence of change in Montag's life. She represents clarity and curiousity. She gets the ball rolling for Montag to want more than he has. She asks him to do something out of the norm, which makes him realize that he is missing something and that his life is incomplete.
On page 27 when it is talking about the dog and how it doesn’t do what we don’t want it to do, it realtes to everyone in society. Everyone is the same and thinks and does whatever the person in charge, whoever they are, wants them to think and do. Everyone looks, acts, speaks, drives, and does everything the same as the next person. Besides Clarice, everyone just does what people want them to do. Clarice represents when the dog growls, it’s defying the system and so does Clarice. Everyone is like the dog. They are somehow programmed to do what everyone wants them to do.
Like Emma said, the people who actually try to think, like Clarisse are looked at as really strange people in society and are somewhat avoided.I feel like Clarisse has a very lonley life and knows too much. The rest of the people are so sheltered and have no idea what life was like and how people had way more freedoms and a more independent way of life. The people become extremely dependent on their current way of life and fear anything other then what they are used to.
Clarice has a huge effect on Montag. In the beginning Montag was almost like everyone else. But Clarice opens his eyes to the real world that many people have forgotten. Which feeds the thought that Montag has of defying the system.
The ventillator grill probably hides something from the fire captain, Beetie. It might be a book or a camera or something else, bout something that is not supposed to be there because of the feeling Montag gets from it.
I think that many occurrances in this book relate to The Pedestrian and Harrison Bergeron. I feel that Clarisse relates to the pedestrian as she enjoys walking everyday and living "how people used to." I also think she is kind of like most the characters in Harrison Bergeron as she questions about this life everyone is living.
Montag mentioned the ventilator grille. I think there are books behind it because ever from the very start I thought that Montag has a curiosity for what's outlawed. When he met Clarisse, that sparked his curiosity further towards wondering more about the books. He has hidden books from each house he's burned becuase of his growing curiousity for them. I predict that the woman who commits suicide in her books will spark the curiousity in him even more and he will start to lose his mind and begin to question the ways of society.
I think a device to help the government keep control over all the people. Something is hidden and Montag does not know what it is, however it give Montag that eerie feeling that someone is watching him.
Even before Montag met Clarisse, he must have been thinking about his society and his place in it if it is a book behind the ventilator grill because he would already be questioning the authority and ethical reason behind the government.
I think that this book relates to how socity is today. We take no time to enjoy the simple things in life. We fly through everyday with blinders on, zooming toward our objctives. The amzing thing is that Ray Bradbury wrote this book in 1953 when televisions were a brand new thing barley anyone had them. Technology was not a major part of socity then. Now, TV is almost a neccesity in this generation. It's like Bradbury knew what the future was going to be like. Clarisse is a "Crazy" seventeen year old girl, that meets Guy one day after he comes home from work. She tells him that firemen used to put out fires not start them. She is going to be a major part of the book and Guy's life in the book.
Seibe- I think that they learn by being taught by adults, who were also taught by adults and so forth. Because if you think about it, we learn a lot from adults over textbooks and such.
In my opinion, I think that a book is behind the ventilator grille. Because from the beggining Montag has had the one curiosity about books and defying the system. When he looks at his ventilator grille he acts very suspicious and acts as if he is hiding something.
Ya but how does the data get put up? Computers can't teach the whole concept of reading and if anything happens to the computers they lose all there knowledge even if they history they tell is twisted.
The thing behind the ventilator could also be a book that he stole and this could make him guilty because of the law. if the dog found out it would eat his brains like they were a pb and j sandwich.
When the firemen take out their book and it shows a change in history it changes the course of the book because anything that they said happened could be wrong.
Montag is holding something taboo and potentially illegal behind his ventilator grille. It's his subcontious want to rebel, but the fact that he is hiding it shows his reluctance to break out and actually do something about the problems of the world.
The significance of the dandelion rubbed on Montag's chin is showing that he really doesn't know what it is really like to "love" someone, the society in Fahrenheit 451 probably don't know what "feelings" are anymore because the government says that marrying someone, like Emma said, Montag believes to be love.
Seibe- I agree with you to an extent. The computers have to be programed so how... Do you think that they have robots or something that programs them? Or how else would you get a computer full of knowledge?
In a world where entertainment is everything, most people remain unhappy. Clarise challenges this notion because she knows a different definition of happiness: happiness from her own life, not through a proxy that is television.
I think Montag wants to feel right and tries to drive his wife to do the same. Clarrise sparks this feeling and creates Montag's feelings towarads everything. Montag knows how he used to live is not right, and he is out to change it.
Seibe- We weren't technically "taught" to speak, we just heard sounds and learned how to speak, just like learning how to read and putting things together.
The dandelion was the point at which everything hits Montag. The "reality" of the life he lives is all computerized and ho dependant on even the tiniest machine functions he is.
When Clarice asked Montag if he was happy, she was probably asking him because, now that he talks to her, he is begging to get out of his shell that was put on him. However, I don't think he doesn't even know what happy is. He's been living his life the same. He may not even know what emotions are. But now that Clarice is talking to him and opening his eyes, he now may be feeling like Clarice and not like everyone else.
The government has ingrained the people into a mind set that they are to seek happiness and follow the rules blindly. in this world, what is the purpose of living? If it has no link to human nature through emotions or love or hate or feeling, why do people live on if they are constantly trying to reach happiness, even though that is impossible unless life is viewed from Clarisse's perspective.
The mechanical dog is a symbol of the insanity that this socity contains. The dog does not like Montag because he is a free thinker. The dog shows that thinking freely is strange and scary to this type of socity. You are resented for being unique.
I think Clarisse’s uncle is going to be important later on in the story. He came up in the short story “The Pedestrian” already and I have a feeling that he will change Montag more.
Macy- I think that they watch what the government wants them to watch, and the people don't have anything better to do, so that's their "entertainment" even though, they probably don't know what that is.
I think the uncle is the main source of "defying the system". From what Clarice says, he's a person who pushes the limits and does what is not socially corect to do. He is the pedestrian in this story. He gets jailed for walking. He also represents our past. He went to jail for driving at a speed in our time. He got jailed for walking, like we do.
Like what Kai said the fires are always at night. I think that this shows how much they are dependant on entertainment and on how much they need eye-candy in their life.
I think that quantity of entertainment has increased for two reasons. to keep the people from having time to think, just like in Harrison Bergeron with the mental handicaps. It also would have increased to offset unhappiness.
I think clarrise is used as a tie for Montag to begin his new life and create a new understanding of the world, truth, and what really is important. She might come out as wierd but she is natural and happy, she has taken apart of what used to be.
I would like to find out more about the uncle. Where did he come from? who is he? How old is he? How does he know so much? I also wonder... Will Montag and Clarise's world clash at some point? Does Clarise and her family have books that Montag will eventually burn down?
Cassie- If you just watch TV so you aren't bored but you don't techniclly enjoy it, or "feel" anything for it, what is the point? Do you think that they are told that they HAVE to watch TV. Or are they all just watching mind-numbing things so that they can "fit" in with the rest of society?
If I had a chance to sit down with someone like Clarisse, I think it would be very interesting to hear about all of her knowledge. I think that it would spark my brain and make me want to know more. This is exactly what is happening to Montag. Our socitey does overlook things and we do take simple things for granted. "Going against the grain" is it really WRONG? or is it just looked upon as weird or abnormal?
Macy- Then we have to think how was the robot programmed to do wat it does? Someone would have to read about wat he was programming the robot for, it all comes down to that reading is necassary to make all the new things. We have to put time into studying to create things.
In our day and age, I think that Clarice would be considered strage, but not to a high degree. She sits and smells the flowers, and looks at the moon, and the stars. Like Peter said, She is a portal to the past. Her and her uncle are the only ones who show any thing from our time. The people look at stuff but they don't really see things, they don't take it in. But that's what makes Clarice special and strange.
In our time, Clarisse might be considered strange but only because she is so fond of the world. Although, she is a lot like people in this time who cherish every moment and make you realize things about yourself that you haven't ever thought about before. In the book's time, Clarisse is somewhat a window to the past. Since all books are outlawed, most people don't know of the past and what things are like. Since Clarisse isn't a robot like the people in the book's time, people recognize her as different and abnormal. Only Montag (by mere coincedence) happened to catch a glimpse of her way of living. Many people won't even stop and talk to her because a. people don't tend to walk anywhere and b. it is weird to attempt to have a social life in that time.
The new entertainment escapes are an unforeseen evil by the contemporary generation. Bradbury was able to predict with creepy accuracy the new technology enhancements and the modern addiction to them. The world can only go down hill from there and into the depths of a world similar to Fahrenheit 451. School is pointless. Its a way to tire them out so that they don't have the energy to think.
In today's society, it is unexceptable to just "decide" not to go to school. Is that okay in this surreal society? Or is Claurise just breaking the rules?
Like Corbin, I would like to know who Clarisse's uncle is. Clarrise reffers to her uncle many times while speaking to Montag. It would be ineresting to dicover who he is and when he was born.
Clarisse doesn’t go to school because she says she stands out to much. She doesn’t think she is socially fit to go to. I also think that she doesn’t want to go because she realizes that it is controlled by the government and a waste of her time.
Clarisse doesn't go to school because school is the same as t.v. it is used to waste time and not to learn how to think. Jobs might be past down, so if your father was an actor you would be
Macy- I'm guessing they just watch to "fit in" and because the government may advise watching t.v. because the whole society in this book is alike and the government doesn't want anyone to be different.
The point of school in this society was to tire the students out with games of basketball and soccer and a lot of physical activities. Even in the classroom the television is a dominant aspect of learning with a computer teacher.
In school, the kids learn what the Government wants them to learn. We have already seen that history has changed. We've seen that the facts of the first fire station was changed and that it was a station that burned books, not fight fires.
Seibe- I understand what you're saying. However I disagree. At some point in the world, there were books. Although they don't exsist in today's society, at some point they were there. So from generation to generation the information has been passed down.
Talking about what they are learning- they only learn what they need to know, pretty much the bare minimum. this is already starting to happen today.We aren't learning what we need in order to make a webpage... we just go to blogger.com and click "create blog". Someone has to have this knowledge because eventually this will go away all together. The lady's determination to protect her books motivated Montag to take action and put his curiousity to action.
The old women is very important to Montages change. He starts to realize how important a book is, why would someone kill themselves over a book if they were not important. This inspires him to steal the book, to learn why someone would do such a crazy thing.
In their socity school is like TV. That is why Clarisse doesn't go to school because she doesn't like it that way so she is not accepted by the other students.
When the women commited suicide, I think it sparked something in his mind. He took a book from he library and hid it under his arm, which shows that he might want to be like the women and Clarice. The women showed Montag that maybe books aren't that bad and he wants to try it and maybe try to defy the system. The women really sparked something in his mind that makes him want what she had.
Amanda had a good point about about how Montag must want to know why the woman would die with her books. Montag must want to know why books are so important she would die for them. I think this woman is trying to say to the governement, that they can't take away her books and its her trying to make people follow her and show how corrupt the government is.
Most recent billionaires (Bill Gates, Mark Zuckergurg) dropped out of school at an early age. Could this be a sign that the education we are recieving is not relevent towards what we really need to be learning? Clarise drops out of school because it is not relevent to her life and what she wants to d with it, simillarly to these men. Maybe we should learn programming, which is where the world is headed?
Montag is moved by the woman with the books. In this time there is so little for people to believe in and die for. This shows him that there can be a purpose in life.
Cassie- I agree. But that brings up the question, how do other people know whether they watch TV or not? Can't they just say they do, but not actually watch it?
Montage wants the information the books contain, he also want to rebel. Its a win win situation. Montage realizes that books are weapons and sees how not only they can learn about thinking but also use it to show the government not everything works correctly.
The woman burning with her books struck Montag. I think he thinks that if someone is willing to die for a library of books than they must really mean something. They must have had imense importance. Then, Montag graabed a book and stuffed it underneath his arm. He may have done this to try to see what is so compelling about books to make someone kill themselves for them.
I think that the women in the end killed herself because living without them would be like living with nothing but a lie. The lie being that technology isnt a life style to her she wants to be able to imagine things her way. Right now it seems that everyone has forgotten that they can think that they can have opinions.
I think that some of the people with books have them to defy the system. Like that lady, she had her books and she dies for them showing that she wasn't going to be controlled by the government. Also i think that Montag has the books, not just to read it, but to maybe just to have it to show that maybe he won't be told what to do and how to do it. This is his beginning to his revolution.
Macy & Eric-How could they not have a government? If they don't have a government, whose to say that books are bad and therefore banned? Who would determine that?
who exactly is the government? is it people or is it just programmed machines who controll a whole human race? we are very unexposed to who and what the government is. I feel like the society and people also lack information as to who they are being ruled by. Like in " The Pedestrian", the police are not actual men, it is a talking car. Is the rest of the world and government officials also robots? Not being able to think for myself would drive me INSANE! I feel like Montag is starting to get to the point of frustration and somewhat stir crazy because his thoughts are being locked up inside of him and now, thanks to Clarisse, he knows that he is capable of having his own thoughts and making them heard.
Riley- If people are so mindless, then why does all the killing take place? Clarisse says how 6 of her friends were shot and 10 were killed in car wrecks (probably the increasing speed of the highway).
I don't tink that the main reason for people having books is to defy the government. The people who have the books have them for a reason. Having the books can lead to people loosing their homes. Why would people take that kind of risk just to be a rebel?
The book hasn't really mentioned the government yet. I think that the police force and fire departments keep everything in order because they take care of the books, which is the only law that's been mentioned so far. Perhaps it's the only law because the people are too busy on their daily routines, like watching parlor walls, to commit crime or attempt to overthrow the government. So far there hasn't really been a need for the government since the only crime being committed is owning books.
We're already headind in the direction Ray Bradbury said we were. Instead of paper back books now we look to our IPad or Kindle. Instead of writing a letter we send an email. Instead of calling someone we just send a text.
I agree with sabie, we are headed in that direction, but reading stills exists and shows no sign of ceasing to be allowed anytime soon. I defiantly think that Clarise is so far a huge base to this story and how it is forming. She caused these thoughts to grow in a fireman's head! Montag seems determined that books arent so bad, and with that attitude hopefully he will change the sad reality we are reading about. Rheana- they might know how to read because of signs and subtitles to their tv shows. Small things like everyday things that need to be labled perhaps.
Mrs. Moritz- I read all of the comments and do have some answers to others' questions. Montag is hiding something, perhaps illegal or otherwise, from his wife, his coworkers, and the rest of the world. Beatty seems to be hiding something as well, an extensive knowledge of the banned books maybe. Clarisse must have a secret, because she is being very covert with all her questions towards Montag. Mildred is too stupid to remember anything, which is why when Montag questions her, a lot of the time she will say she never said or did one thing or another. The Mechanical Hound is just a ready-made killing machine, a robot designed for one sole purpose: to eliminate those that the government feels are threats to the peace in society. Also, why did Bradbury write this book? Why was it formed from The Pedestrian? How did he just know that this was going to happen?
Some of these comments sparked some of my additional thoughts. One comment was Rheana's, she said that the firemen took out their rule books which were, with our knowledge, completely wrong. It got me thinking- we know it's wrong however, this is what they were taught. In some of our classes I am sure that some of our textbooks might be biased and we may be receiving the "wrong" info but it is hard to ask questions about the validity of what we learn. Usually, we tend to accept it and move on, only with prior knowledge it is easy to shake our heads at it. Also, Joe said that most people remain unhappy when they live in a world where entertainment is everything. And yes, it seems miserable to us but this is the only world they know, it is only unhappy for the people who enjoy the simplicity or the people who like books. But even Clarisse and her family is happy. She lives in that world consumed by technology but her family knows how to put that aside and focus on the joy of simple things like the taste of rain drops. She is portrayed happy although it seems many might be unhappy, to me they just seem distant and impersonal. Text to text connection: clarisse's uncle has a big influence on what Clarisse knows much like Piggy in Lord of the Flies... The technology in their world appears to make evryone stone, they don't interact with anyone and they walk around all day with "seashells" or their eyes glued to their TV. This book seems to collide a lot with Harrison Bergeron in its ideas that the government wants everyone to be equal however this book is not quite as obvious as Harison Bergeron in its attempt. I think Clarisse and the old woman really open Montag's eyes to his world and it forces him to surface the questions that I think he has had all along but has tried to erase them from his mind. It seems Bradbury considers himself as a person like Clarisse, maybe a person who knows too much, a person who takes pleasure in simplicity or even an outcast... How does he know/predict these things that have come true in our society? What was his purpose of writing this book?
So I have read through these comments, and I think that each character in this book has something that hasn't been revealed yet. Whether it's a personality, or an object, or a pure secret. Montag seams to be a genuine guy, but it's obvious he is more complex then he portrays himself as. Mildred seams to be completely lost in all of the technology. She doesn't care about herself, or Montag. Clarisse is my favorite character so far because she sticks out so much! I love how she has made Montag come out of his shell in a way. He is more open to ideas, like when he opened his mouth to taste the rain. I think that the idea of the mechanical hound could lead to a downfall of one of the characters. Otherwise it wouldn't have been presented in the story. I also think that the dog was created for destruction, and nothing else. I hope that Clarisse's Uncle actually comes into the story because he sounds more interesting that Clarisse herself!
I think it realtes to how people are controlled through books and laws, which creates the impersonal, thoughtless society like the dog
ReplyDeleteI think that the government tries to make everything sterotypical and how you know which people are firemen or which ones are outcasts.
ReplyDeleteThe hound not thinking anything you don't want it to think relates to the governmental control because the government wants to make everything perfect. They want your mind to stay on track. The total mind control hasn't appeared yet in this story, unlike "Harrison Bergeron". The government wants you to not be competitive in your mindset.
ReplyDeleteI think that the dog not thinking anything they don't want it to think relate to the people in that the government knid of controls the people in their own society and how they act. They don't do anything out of the usual and don't ask questions either, or they think questions and are almost afraid to publically ask them.
ReplyDeleteSociety is run by the government in Fahrenheit 451. No one really cares about the world around them, and everyone just goes with the flow. Clarisse, however, is the exception to the monotony of society. Montag used to be a part of this society, but starts to question his ways and his culture after he meets Clarisse.
ReplyDeletethe qoute, "it doesnt think anything we dont want it to think" is an example of how the government is totally taking over everyone's thought process and make them totally incapabale of thinking for themselves. The people get so accustomed to and used to their day by day system of waking up, eating, watching tv, sleeping and repeating. I feel like montag finally starts to get a hold on reality and recognizes that people are being brainwashed and can't truly act for themselves.
ReplyDeleteDid they get rid of real animals?
ReplyDeleteThe government controls people's lives by the media, which sets the "standard" for a happy life. The earbuds that mildred wears keep her isolated from the world and so that the government can control her thoughts
ReplyDeleteThe people in the city are pretty much programmed to do the same things routinely every day. We don't know if the government has done this or it's just human evolution.
ReplyDeleteThe government is just controlling every person by limiting the amount of knowledge that they receive. People are not allowed to have books because they possess knowledge that the people don’t know. There for the people cannot have the books. This is related to the hound because the hound is controlled and not allowed to think his own thoughts and have his own will. This is like the government controlling the people
ReplyDeleteThe society in Fahrenheit 451 all conforms to one way of being. The mechanical dog is the workhorse for the government in this book. Like any government worker, like Montag, the dog does not go outside it's boundries' or at least is not supposed to. The Dog is the perfect follower to the rules because it can do no other. It makes one wonder why the fire department isn't headed and maintianed by robots rather than men who could potentially think for themselves.
ReplyDeleteGood question CASSIE! I think the animals are still real but sort of 'reprogrammed' like the people may be.
ReplyDeleteThis relates to the contemporary world in the ways of censoring. Eventually, like in Harrison Bergeron, everyone will be so censored to the point that life has no meaning. Montag is woken up from his delusional place in society with the question,"Are you happy?"
ReplyDeleteThe hound is used to symbolize society, they both don't think freely. It is much like the pedestrian when someone who thinks freely is thought of as insane.
ReplyDeleteClarisse has the thoughts that are simple and were once accepted in society but in the modern-day Fahrenheit 451 society has placed that anyone who daydreams or "thinks outside the box" is crazy.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Rae, the dog is a robot, programed and day-by-day the same, different from what a real dog should be, playful, kind, and spontaneous. This matches the society in the book.
ReplyDeleteWhy did Ray Bradbury write this book?
ReplyDeleteClarice "takes his mask of happiness away" making him face the truth in his life. He is openly unhappy and more honest with himself. She is slowly opening his eyes to see what the government doesnt want him to see, the fact that the world is unhappy.
ReplyDeleteClarisse is like the idea of freedom in the book and when she talks to Montag he cant help but get sucked into her world of freedom through his thoughts. His thoughts go towards things that are forbidden but those things seem to be forbidden for no reason in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteBooks are behind the ventilator, because its a good hiding spot and it can help him learn to think.
ReplyDeleteClarice is affecting Montag in a positive way. He is starting to really think and think for himself. This isn’t what the government wants, but he is starting to realize that.
ReplyDeleteClarise is the influence of change in Montag's life. She represents clarity and curiousity. She gets the ball rolling for Montag to want more than he has. She asks him to do something out of the norm, which makes him realize that he is missing something and that his life is incomplete.
ReplyDeleteOn page 27 when it is talking about the dog and how it doesn’t do what we don’t want it to do, it realtes to everyone in society. Everyone is the same and thinks and does whatever the person in charge, whoever they are, wants them to think and do. Everyone looks, acts, speaks, drives, and does everything the same as the next person. Besides Clarice, everyone just does what people want them to do. Clarice represents when the dog growls, it’s defying the system and so does Clarice. Everyone is like the dog. They are somehow programmed to do what everyone wants them to do.
ReplyDeleteI think that the government is trying to makee everything perfect and surreal. So they make it clear of who is a fireman and who is an oddman.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I think it's to show that the more we let the government rule, the more control they will have over us, how we think, and how we live.
ReplyDeleteLike Emma said, the people who actually try to think, like Clarisse are looked at as really strange people in society and are somewhat avoided.I feel like Clarisse has a very lonley life and knows too much. The rest of the people are so sheltered and have no idea what life was like and how people had way more freedoms and a more independent way of life. The people become extremely dependent on their current way of life and fear anything other then what they are used to.
ReplyDeleteClarice has a huge effect on Montag. In the beginning Montag was almost like everyone else. But Clarice opens his eyes to the real world that many people have forgotten. Which feeds the thought that Montag has of defying the system.
ReplyDeleteif they have no books how do they learn to read and write or even type?
ReplyDeleteThe ventillator grill probably hides something from the fire captain, Beetie. It might be a book or a camera or something else, bout something that is not supposed to be there because of the feeling Montag gets from it.
ReplyDeleteSeibe- Don't they have computers?
ReplyDeleteTroy, if that is a wise place to hide books, why is it a known hidding place? wouldn't you want to be more creative than what the average man does?
ReplyDeleteI think that many occurrances in this book relate to The Pedestrian and Harrison Bergeron. I feel that Clarisse relates to the pedestrian as she enjoys walking everyday and living "how people used to." I also think she is kind of like most the characters in Harrison Bergeron as she questions about this life everyone is living.
ReplyDeleteMontag mentioned the ventilator grille. I think there are books behind it because ever from the very start I thought that Montag has a curiosity for what's outlawed. When he met Clarisse, that sparked his curiosity further towards wondering more about the books. He has hidden books from each house he's burned becuase of his growing curiousity for them. I predict that the woman who commits suicide in her books will spark the curiousity in him even more and he will start to lose his mind and begin to question the ways of society.
ReplyDeleteI think a device to help the government keep control over all the people. Something is hidden and Montag does not know what it is, however it give Montag that eerie feeling that someone is watching him.
ReplyDeleteEven before Montag met Clarisse, he must have been thinking about his society and his place in it if it is a book behind the ventilator grill because he would already be questioning the authority and ethical reason behind the government.
ReplyDeleteI think that this book relates to how socity is today. We take no time to enjoy the simple things in life. We fly through everyday with blinders on, zooming toward our objctives. The amzing thing is that Ray Bradbury wrote this book in 1953 when televisions were a brand new thing barley anyone had them. Technology was not a major part of socity then. Now, TV is almost a neccesity in this generation. It's like Bradbury knew what the future was going to be like.
ReplyDeleteClarisse is a "Crazy" seventeen year old girl, that meets Guy one day after he comes home from work. She tells him that firemen used to put out fires not start them. She is going to be a major part of the book and Guy's life in the book.
Seibe- I think that they learn by being taught by adults, who were also taught by adults and so forth. Because if you think about it, we learn a lot from adults over textbooks and such.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I think that a book is behind the ventilator grille. Because from the beggining Montag has had the one curiosity about books and defying the system. When he looks at his ventilator grille he acts very suspicious and acts as if he is hiding something.
ReplyDeleteCassie-good point. People don't NEED books to rely on to live their life. They have other ways of adapting.
ReplyDeleteYa but how does the data get put up? Computers can't teach the whole concept of reading and if anything happens to the computers they lose all there knowledge even if they history they tell is twisted.
ReplyDeleteThe thing behind the ventilator could also be a book that he stole and this could make him guilty because of the law. if the dog found out it would eat his brains like they were a pb and j sandwich.
ReplyDeleteWhen the firemen take out their book and it shows a change in history it changes the course of the book because anything that they said happened could be wrong.
ReplyDeleteMontag is holding something taboo and potentially illegal behind his ventilator grille. It's his subcontious want to rebel, but the fact that he is hiding it shows his reluctance to break out and actually do something about the problems of the world.
ReplyDeleteThe significance of the dandelion rubbed on Montag's chin is showing that he really doesn't know what it is really like to "love" someone, the society in Fahrenheit 451 probably don't know what "feelings" are anymore because the government says that marrying someone, like Emma said, Montag believes to be love.
ReplyDeleteWhen clarisse asked if he was happy she was trying to open his eyes to reality.
ReplyDeleteSeibe- I agree with you to an extent. The computers have to be programed so how... Do you think that they have robots or something that programs them? Or how else would you get a computer full of knowledge?
ReplyDeleteIn a world where entertainment is everything, most people remain unhappy. Clarise challenges this notion because she knows a different definition of happiness: happiness from her own life, not through a proxy that is television.
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarisse meant to make Montag think about his quality of life. She wanted him to really open his eyes and take in his actions.
ReplyDeleteI think Montag wants to feel right and tries to drive his wife to do the same. Clarrise sparks this feeling and creates Montag's feelings towarads everything. Montag knows how he used to live is not right, and he is out to change it.
ReplyDeleteSeibe- We weren't technically "taught" to speak, we just heard sounds and learned how to speak, just like learning how to read and putting things together.
ReplyDeleteI think alot of what people "feel" is what they are taught to feel, but they don't really understand how to feel emotion.
ReplyDeleteThe dandelion was the point at which everything hits Montag. The "reality" of the life he lives is all computerized and ho dependant on even the tiniest machine functions he is.
ReplyDeleteWhen Clarice asked Montag if he was happy, she was probably asking him because, now that he talks to her, he is begging to get out of his shell that was put on him. However, I don't think he doesn't even know what happy is. He's been living his life the same. He may not even know what emotions are. But now that Clarice is talking to him and opening his eyes, he now may be feeling like Clarice and not like everyone else.
ReplyDeleteLike Emma said, What DO they watch? Because if they have no emotions, then TV can't be very entertaining, can it?
ReplyDeleteThe government has ingrained the people into a mind set that they are to seek happiness and follow the rules blindly. in this world, what is the purpose of living? If it has no link to human nature through emotions or love or hate or feeling, why do people live on if they are constantly trying to reach happiness, even though that is impossible unless life is viewed from Clarisse's perspective.
ReplyDeleteThe mechanical dog is a symbol of the insanity that this socity contains. The dog does not like Montag because he is a free thinker. The dog shows that thinking freely is strange and scary to this type of socity. You are resented for being unique.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Katie's point about how he doesn't know what happy really is or with the dandelion, what love really is.
ReplyDeleteI think Clarisse’s uncle is going to be important later on in the story. He came up in the short story “The Pedestrian” already and I have a feeling that he will change Montag more.
ReplyDeleteMacy- I think that they watch what the government wants them to watch, and the people don't have anything better to do, so that's their "entertainment" even though, they probably don't know what that is.
ReplyDeleteI think the uncle is the main source of "defying the system". From what Clarice says, he's a person who pushes the limits and does what is not socially corect to do. He is the pedestrian in this story. He gets jailed for walking. He also represents our past. He went to jail for driving at a speed in our time. He got jailed for walking, like we do.
ReplyDeleteLike what Kai said the fires are always at night. I think that this shows how much they are dependant on entertainment and on how much they need eye-candy in their life.
ReplyDeleteI think that quantity of entertainment has increased for two reasons. to keep the people from having time to think, just like in Harrison Bergeron with the mental handicaps. It also would have increased to offset unhappiness.
ReplyDeleteClarisse represents all that is still good in society. She literally stops to smell the roses and takes time to enjoy life.
ReplyDeleteI think clarrise is used as a tie for Montag to begin his new life and create a new understanding of the world, truth, and what really is important. She might come out as wierd but she is natural and happy, she has taken apart of what used to be.
ReplyDeleteI would like to find out more about the uncle. Where did he come from? who is he? How old is he? How does he know so much? I also wonder... Will Montag and Clarise's world clash at some point? Does Clarise and her family have books that Montag will eventually burn down?
ReplyDeleteCassie- If you just watch TV so you aren't bored but you don't techniclly enjoy it, or "feel" anything for it, what is the point? Do you think that they are told that they HAVE to watch TV. Or are they all just watching mind-numbing things so that they can "fit" in with the rest of society?
ReplyDeleteIf I had a chance to sit down with someone like Clarisse, I think it would be very interesting to hear about all of her knowledge. I think that it would spark my brain and make me want to know more. This is exactly what is happening to Montag. Our socitey does overlook things and we do take simple things for granted. "Going against the grain" is it really WRONG? or is it just looked upon as weird or abnormal?
ReplyDeleteMacy- Then we have to think how was the robot programmed to do wat it does? Someone would have to read about wat he was programming the robot for, it all comes down to that reading is necassary to make all the new things. We have to put time into studying to create things.
ReplyDeleteIn our day and age, I think that Clarice would be considered strage, but not to a high degree. She sits and smells the flowers, and looks at the moon, and the stars. Like Peter said, She is a portal to the past. Her and her uncle are the only ones who show any thing from our time. The people look at stuff but they don't really see things, they don't take it in. But that's what makes Clarice special and strange.
ReplyDeleteIn our time, Clarisse might be considered strange but only because she is so fond of the world. Although, she is a lot like people in this time who cherish every moment and make you realize things about yourself that you haven't ever thought about before. In the book's time, Clarisse is somewhat a window to the past. Since all books are outlawed, most people don't know of the past and what things are like. Since Clarisse isn't a robot like the people in the book's time, people recognize her as different and abnormal. Only Montag (by mere coincedence) happened to catch a glimpse of her way of living. Many people won't even stop and talk to her because a. people don't tend to walk anywhere and b. it is weird to attempt to have a social life in that time.
ReplyDeleteThe new entertainment escapes are an unforeseen evil by the contemporary generation. Bradbury was able to predict with creepy accuracy the new technology enhancements and the modern addiction to them. The world can only go down hill from there and into the depths of a world similar to Fahrenheit 451. School is pointless. Its a way to tire them out so that they don't have the energy to think.
ReplyDeleteIn today's society, it is unexceptable to just "decide" not to go to school. Is that okay in this surreal society? Or is Claurise just breaking the rules?
ReplyDeleteThe concept of the school they have in the book wont help the kids get though life socially.
ReplyDeleteLike Corbin, I would like to know who Clarisse's uncle is. Clarrise reffers to her uncle many times while speaking to Montag. It would be ineresting to dicover who he is and when he was born.
ReplyDeleteClarisse doesn’t go to school because she says she stands out to much. She doesn’t think she is socially fit to go to. I also think that she doesn’t want to go because she realizes that it is controlled by the government and a waste of her time.
ReplyDeleteClarisse is a symbol of the old world that has depth, love and knowledge. She is the embodiment of all that the government hates
ReplyDeleteClarisse doesn't go to school because school is the same as t.v. it is used to waste time and not to learn how to think. Jobs might be past down, so if your father was an actor you would be
ReplyDeleteMacy- I'm guessing they just watch to "fit in" and because the government may advise watching t.v. because the whole society in this book is alike and the government doesn't want anyone to be different.
ReplyDeleteThe point of school in this society was to tire the students out with games of basketball and soccer and a lot of physical activities. Even in the classroom the television is a dominant aspect of learning with a computer teacher.
ReplyDeleteIn school, the kids learn what the Government wants them to learn. We have already seen that history has changed. We've seen that the facts of the first fire station was changed and that it was a station that burned books, not fight fires.
ReplyDeleteSeibe- I understand what you're saying. However I disagree. At some point in the world, there were books. Although they don't exsist in today's society, at some point they were there. So from generation to generation the information has been passed down.
ReplyDeleteTalking about what they are learning- they only learn what they need to know, pretty much the bare minimum. this is already starting to happen today.We aren't learning what we need in order to make a webpage... we just go to blogger.com and click "create blog". Someone has to have this knowledge because eventually this will go away all together. The lady's determination to protect her books motivated Montag to take action and put his curiousity to action.
ReplyDeleteThe old women is very important to Montages change. He starts to realize how important a book is, why would someone kill themselves over a book if they were not important. This inspires him to steal the book, to learn why someone would do such a crazy thing.
ReplyDeleteMacy- Clarisse is breaking the rules however she is right when she says that the schools don't notice.
ReplyDeleteIn their socity school is like TV. That is why Clarisse doesn't go to school because she doesn't like it that way so she is not accepted by the other students.
ReplyDeleteThe women in the end of this section represents devotion to me. She was devoted to her books and leaving them would be like leaving a child to her.
ReplyDeleteWhen the women commited suicide, I think it sparked something in his mind. He took a book from he library and hid it under his arm, which shows that he might want to be like the women and Clarice. The women showed Montag that maybe books aren't that bad and he wants to try it and maybe try to defy the system. The women really sparked something in his mind that makes him want what she had.
ReplyDeleteAmanda had a good point about about how Montag must want to know why the woman would die with her books. Montag must want to know why books are so important she would die for them. I think this woman is trying to say to the governement, that they can't take away her books and its her trying to make people follow her and show how corrupt the government is.
ReplyDeleteMost recent billionaires (Bill Gates, Mark Zuckergurg) dropped out of school at an early age. Could this be a sign that the education we are recieving is not relevent towards what we really need to be learning? Clarise drops out of school because it is not relevent to her life and what she wants to d with it, simillarly to these men. Maybe we should learn programming, which is where the world is headed?
ReplyDeleteMontag is moved by the woman with the books. In this time there is so little for people to believe in and die for. This shows him that there can be a purpose in life.
ReplyDeleteCassie- I agree. But that brings up the question, how do other people know whether they watch TV or not? Can't they just say they do, but not actually watch it?
ReplyDeleteThe woman represents Montag's transition into his new frame of mind which was sparked by Clarisse.
ReplyDeleteJoe- what exactly do you mean by 'programming'?
ReplyDeleteMontage wants the information the books contain, he also want to rebel. Its a win win situation. Montage realizes that books are weapons and sees how not only they can learn about thinking but also use it to show the government not everything works correctly.
ReplyDeletePeople don't have books just to defy the government: they are curious. Montag looks at sentences and titles of the books even as he burned them.
ReplyDeleteI think books are there becuse peopole care about them and they become something that they truly value as a person. It replaces TV and mindlessness
ReplyDeleteMacy- So if some people don't actually watch t.v. what do they do? I think they watch t.v. because there is nothing really else they can do.
ReplyDeleteThe woman burning with her books struck Montag. I think he thinks that if someone is willing to die for a library of books than they must really mean something. They must have had imense importance. Then, Montag graabed a book and stuffed it underneath his arm. He may have done this to try to see what is so compelling about books to make someone kill themselves for them.
ReplyDeleteI think the people who have books are trying to preserve culture. Like the shadow gallery in V for Vendetta, it is simply to preserve the older world.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Maria. People are just naturally curious. I don't think they are doing it just to defy the system, whatever kind of system that is.
ReplyDeleteI think that the women in the end killed herself because living without them would be like living with nothing but a lie. The lie being that technology isnt a life style to her she wants to be able to imagine things her way. Right now it seems that everyone has forgotten that they can think that they can have opinions.
ReplyDeleteAbby- What do you think "the system" is?
ReplyDeleteEric is right. How do we even know that the society has a governement?
ReplyDeleteHow could a government allow their people to become this mindless? Is the rest of the world like this as well?
ReplyDeleteI think that some of the people with books have them to defy the system. Like that lady, she had her books and she dies for them showing that she wasn't going to be controlled by the government. Also i think that Montag has the books, not just to read it, but to maybe just to have it to show that maybe he won't be told what to do and how to do it. This is his beginning to his revolution.
ReplyDeleteCassie- by "the system" I mean like the government program, how it is ran, the laws, etc.
ReplyDeleteMacy & Eric-How could they not have a government? If they don't have a government, whose to say that books are bad and therefore banned? Who would determine that?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Michael because today the internet is very important today and a main part of everyday life.
ReplyDeletewho exactly is the government? is it people or is it just programmed machines who controll a whole human race? we are very unexposed to who and what the government is. I feel like the society and people also lack information as to who they are being ruled by. Like in " The Pedestrian", the police are not actual men, it is a talking car. Is the rest of the world and government officials also robots? Not being able to think for myself would drive me INSANE! I feel like Montag is starting to get to the point of frustration and somewhat stir crazy because his thoughts are being locked up inside of him and now, thanks to Clarisse, he knows that he is capable of having his own thoughts and making them heard.
ReplyDeleteI think that the government set the standard but the rest of society fell into place with the way they live because of it.
ReplyDeleteAbby- yes they most likely have a government, however the book never said that. We all are just infering it.
ReplyDeleteRiley- If people are so mindless, then why does all the killing take place? Clarisse says how 6 of her friends were shot and 10 were killed in car wrecks (probably the increasing speed of the highway).
ReplyDeleteI don't tink that the main reason for people having books is to defy the government. The people who have the books have them for a reason. Having the books can lead to people loosing their homes. Why would people take that kind of risk just to be a rebel?
ReplyDeleteThe book hasn't really mentioned the government yet. I think that the police force and fire departments keep everything in order because they take care of the books, which is the only law that's been mentioned so far. Perhaps it's the only law because the people are too busy on their daily routines, like watching parlor walls, to commit crime or attempt to overthrow the government. So far there hasn't really been a need for the government since the only crime being committed is owning books.
ReplyDeleteIf books are ban how do some people know how to read?
ReplyDeleteLast thoughts??? Log off and shut down. :)
ReplyDeleteWe're already headind in the direction Ray Bradbury said we were. Instead of paper back books now we look to our IPad or Kindle. Instead of writing a letter we send an email. Instead of calling someone we just send a text.
ReplyDeleteI agree with sabie, we are headed in that direction, but reading stills exists and shows no sign of ceasing to be allowed anytime soon. I defiantly think that Clarise is so far a huge base to this story and how it is forming. She caused these thoughts to grow in a fireman's head! Montag seems determined that books arent so bad, and with that attitude hopefully he will change the sad reality we are reading about. Rheana- they might know how to read because of signs and subtitles to their tv shows. Small things like everyday things that need to be labled perhaps.
ReplyDeleteMrs. Moritz- I read all of the comments and do have some answers to others' questions. Montag is hiding something, perhaps illegal or otherwise, from his wife, his coworkers, and the rest of the world. Beatty seems to be hiding something as well, an extensive knowledge of the banned books maybe. Clarisse must have a secret, because she is being very covert with all her questions towards Montag. Mildred is too stupid to remember anything, which is why when Montag questions her, a lot of the time she will say she never said or did one thing or another. The Mechanical Hound is just a ready-made killing machine, a robot designed for one sole purpose: to eliminate those that the government feels are threats to the peace in society. Also, why did Bradbury write this book? Why was it formed from The Pedestrian? How did he just know that this was going to happen?
ReplyDeleteSome of these comments sparked some of my additional thoughts. One comment was Rheana's, she said that the firemen took out their rule books which were, with our knowledge, completely wrong. It got me thinking- we know it's wrong however, this is what they were taught. In some of our classes I am sure that some of our textbooks might be biased and we may be receiving the "wrong" info but it is hard to ask questions about the validity of what we learn. Usually, we tend to accept it and move on, only with prior knowledge it is easy to shake our heads at it. Also, Joe said that most people remain unhappy when they live in a world where entertainment is everything. And yes, it seems miserable to us but this is the only world they know, it is only unhappy for the people who enjoy the simplicity or the people who like books. But even Clarisse and her family is happy. She lives in that world consumed by technology but her family knows how to put that aside and focus on the joy of simple things like the taste of rain drops. She is portrayed happy although it seems many might be unhappy, to me they just seem distant and impersonal. Text to text connection: clarisse's uncle has a big influence on what Clarisse knows much like Piggy in Lord of the Flies...
ReplyDeleteThe technology in their world appears to make evryone stone, they don't interact with anyone and they walk around all day with "seashells" or their eyes glued to their TV.
This book seems to collide a lot with Harrison Bergeron in its ideas that the government wants everyone to be equal however this book is not quite as obvious as Harison Bergeron in its attempt.
I think Clarisse and the old woman really open Montag's eyes to his world and it forces him to surface the questions that I think he has had all along but has tried to erase them from his mind. It seems Bradbury considers himself as a person like Clarisse, maybe a person who knows too much, a person who takes pleasure in simplicity or even an outcast... How does he know/predict these things that have come true in our society? What was his purpose of writing this book?
So I have read through these comments, and I think that each character in this book has something that hasn't been revealed yet. Whether it's a personality, or an object, or a pure secret. Montag seams to be a genuine guy, but it's obvious he is more complex then he portrays himself as. Mildred seams to be completely lost in all of the technology. She doesn't care about herself, or Montag. Clarisse is my favorite character so far because she sticks out so much! I love how she has made Montag come out of his shell in a way. He is more open to ideas, like when he opened his mouth to taste the rain. I think that the idea of the mechanical hound could lead to a downfall of one of the characters. Otherwise it wouldn't have been presented in the story. I also think that the dog was created for destruction, and nothing else. I hope that Clarisse's Uncle actually comes into the story because he sounds more interesting that Clarisse herself!
ReplyDelete