I think that they thought he was insane because he was still looking for knowledge and the ability to learn which in this soceity, it is viewed as being insane
I believe that they proclaimed him insane because the society in this book makes people believe that books are bad so the society automatically shuns those who disobey
Good question, Haley... what does the world look like? Is America still a world power? Most likely. Also, there's the other good point... where is the story taking place? One would assume America.
The society in the US is usually more free than other societies, so I think that if the US is like this then most countries could be similar to this, or even worse.
I agree with Zach. I dont think the people have the knowledge of wanting to travel and if they did maybe that would change the way that view the outside world
I think that Montag cares for finding something else to make him happy because he is almost realizing that he can have emotion and there is something else out there to make him happy
At the begining, he is a slave to feeling good like the rest until he meets the girl, they have an interesting relationship with. he adopts her ideals, begins to think about things. He befriends her but doesnt relize his new found feelings until she dies
To answer Haley's question about what it's like outside of the world, I don't think that they have the same banning, because they have a different government. Looking into the present time, each government is run differently than the other. I think that foreign governments at this time has different rules
I agree with Dan. I think that the girl has changed his outlook and I think he always kind of thought the way society was wrong but he almost felt alone because no one else thought things like he did. Once he finds the girl I think it gave him a sense of courage to question society
I agree with everyone in the circle in saying that the book doesn't necessary say it takes place in the USA. Grace makes a valid point in referring back to "innocent until proven guilty" but possibly... could this book use that phrase with suspects of book thieving by saying "guilty until proven innocent". They immediately will take away people to an insane asylum, so they are automatically guilty. this society flips the phrase so now people are automatically guilty, and really don't have a chance to be proven innocent.
I agree with Daniel, once he meets Clarisse, she is so different that it sparks thoughts in him. When he does think that he isn't happy, it really changes him. I think that a great question was asked: what does happiness mean, in that society? What does it mean in general? Is our idea of happiness today different than that of the time in the novel? I also like Zach's comment: "ignorance is bliss."
I believe that he cares about Mildred indeed but he is quite dependent on his regular visits with Clarisse, and when you need something it obviously means a kit to you.
I think Montag has gotten happiness from the girl he's met. She makes him think of things outside of the usual way he sees things. I agree with Mark, Montag realizes that he isn't really happy now but he could be.
Agreeing with Mikalea and Kelsie, possibly the term "happy" in this soceity has a new meaning, and that "happy" for these citizens are unemotional, and regular.
Off of what Garrett D said, i actually don't think they are happy. They may think they are because they have everything they think they need but they don't really show emotions anymore
I agree with Kara, I think that Clarisse enables him to question society. To us, she seems normal. When Montag is so astounded by her nature, it really tells us about the society.
In response to Natalie's question, I do not think that there can be a world power in this kind of society becAause no one really cares about it, and that is essentially what gives a world power power.
I think that they dont really have emotions. I disagree with Dan. I dont think that these people choose to not show there emotions but due to they way that they were brought up, emotions have slowly dissapeared and I dont think it is as important in the world.
I think they do have emotions. For example, Guy feels guilty, sad, and scared throughout the story. Also, the girl that he meets also has emotions, like fear of her classmates. I think that the people just has problems showing their emotions. In this society, it's not important to show them.
Emotions, well I think they have emotions but they are emotions that are programed in their brain to occur when they are met with a certain situation (just like Mikaela said. He does't have feeling but emotions they are different.
I think what Dan is saying about Montag showing more emotions relates to his senses- he tastes the rain, touches the dandelion, etc. It's weird to think that people have abandoned simple joys in that world, and only rely on sight.
Hannah says that they go through a routine every day that makes it unemotional. I disagree, becuase you can go through a regular routine, but it is your choice if you would like to have emotion or change up the schedule.
Dan says that everyone tries to hide their emotions in the society of Farenheight 451. That hasn't really changed in our society, because people still try and hide their emotions. You can't always tell when somebody is upset or angry. You never know how people really feel.
I agree with Jack, the people have a very spacific veiw on how life has to be there, and people are purposely ignoring their emotions and the government to create an illusion that everything is better than it really is.
I think that only a select few really have emotions ( the fireman ) because they have seen books and know how much they are missing out on. Also I think that the people who have some knowledge about what there might be might be somewaht happy because they know what is beyond autopilot.
I really agree with Grace, they don't appreciate the little things anymore. they're just trying to race through life. For instance, how they had to make the bill boards longer so people could read as they speed past them
My question is, why are they so regular? Is the government forcing them to, or are they just letting the society of the time brainwash them while they sit, dumbfounded, watching television?
I agree with Sydney, the people with books must be the happy ones. I am happy when I read. What is the point of this society? It seems it is plain and unhappy. When many people say that they have known nothing else, I agree. The people with books are holding onto what the world used to look like, I suppose.
I agree with Sidney. There is different types of happiness and I think the people that dont read and live the same routine everyday think there happy, only because that is all they have known. The people that are hiding the books are truely happy. The woman that died with her books had true compassion for reading and knowledge and that was very schocking for montag because compassion and passion is a rare and almost nonexistant thing in soceity
When I think about Montag, I see someone who has believed something his entire life but has potential to learn and grow. Now that he has been exposed to something new and vital, he is soaking it all up, and this is changing his outlook on everything- his job, his wife, and himself.
Also... is there fear within the people in the book when the citizens hide books, or do people hide books to rebel against the government? are they truly fearful or are they starting to get back to a rebellious stage, such as the "Dark ages" that the Captain was talking about.
The book seems like it is a characature of the rea world, as if it were written to show ups our faults, and this is why it is possible to see ourselves in this society, or headed that way.
When burning books you burn all the history of the society, then it is difficult to recall and learn from mistakes, yes; but since they are starting a new society from scratch they don't need the old old history just the history from the beginning of the society, and they probabaly record events on paper but they are not releasing it to the public, just for their reference.
I think that the government of Farenheight 451 is very controlling. Mark says that the books might contain valuable information. I think that Mark is right, because they might have lessons that the government doesn't want them to know
The firefighters weren't only hurting things, although it seemed that way. The books being burnt changed people and how they viewed things, so although it wasn't a direct effect on people, it really did end up hurting them.
Do the kids actually kill eachother? why would they? YOu get the sense through this book that is is almost a perfect society but once the book says that the kids are killing eachother and things it questions what the reader thinks about the book? Is the only punishment burning books?
It seems that their society really has no justice system because everyone feels and does what society tells them so there is no need for punishment besides the burning of books.
I dont think there is really a need for a large crime control system because their society doesnt do wrong because they can only be the same as eachother. If everyone does it then it isnt really a crime.
I agree with Corey. It seems like life is not valued in this society. Everyone is just the same and they contribute in no way to the society, therefore they are not considered important.
Well she felt that she had gained more from her books than from anything else and it was the RATIONAL dision to stay that brought montag to his senses, made him think about what he was missing.
Moritz's question: I believe that the woman who would rather die with her books rather than live without them was the "spark" in Montag that caused him to feel guilt inside him. It was a revelation to him, that burning people's houses and even KILLING them was actually wrong. It just seems so... crazy to us because we live in a society in which burning books seems so unimaginable! Also, he keeps referring to the ventilator grille, which makes us wonder what could be in it that had made the secret become so apparent in his attitude.
In our society school is a very important and we look poorly upon the people who drop out. I dont think think they take it as seriously as we do and maybe its because there is only a set knowledge that people need to know so why go to school?
i think the girl, clarisse i think, just shows montag the little pleasures in life and not just the big picture. sort of that life is a journey not a destination
Sounds like the people of the society are expendable, life is not a prized and fragile gift given to everyone, and it is just a routine and if you happen to pass there is another robot person that can fill in the empty spot. I wonder if there is unemployment in this society.
are there expectations in this society? do people stive for things and want to be looked upon highly in soceity or is everyone looked at the same so no one has any goal or aspirations?
The woman who didn't leave her house was probably trying to take a stand. The firefighters probably see this happening a lot, so it didn't do much, but I think her thought was that if she stood there, they wouldn't burn the house. She tried to stand up for herself, but it didn't work out.
I think Montag's eyes have been opened by Clarrise because she has taught him that you dont have to do everything just like everyone else and you can observe things outside of what most people enjoy.
I think Clarisse is a much better education than what she has described in the schools. Is it really necessary to get an education when it's not teaching you anything?
The little things don't seem as important when there's no use for them. In this society, they use certain objects and only pay attention to the objects that will get them through the day.
Alyssa's question: i think that they were only called at night because people wouldn't dare to read during the day because they think they will be caught
I think that the reason they burn at night is so that people won't find out. If people find out, then people are going to get curious and wonder what is going on. Their curiousity might cause them to break the rules.
Do the people in society come out to watch the show? do they enjoy seeing books burned. In our society when someone gets arrested or there is a fire people are curious but not in a good way? are these things positive? Do kids see this as an example of what happens to people who strive for knowledge
I agree, I think that the time of day is significant to the entire idea. Does the dark represent the secrets of reading, and the secrets of knowledge? I like Mark's metaphor.
The firemen always burn books at night becasue thats when it burns the brightest. The government hopes to set an example to the citizens of what the result is of reading books.
I agree with Garrett that the fires at night might be for the purpose of striking fear into the people that are surrounding the area where the books were found.
I don't thnk that these people realize exactly what is going to happen to them. They see reading books as evil, like we see crime now, and expect thre to be punishment.
Since everything is so routine once Clarisse opens Guy's eyes to the little things he feeds on his curiosity of everything he was missing before. Once he has a taste of the sweet surprises he wants more and more and observes everything around him. Will this spread to his wife? Will guy cue her in on the little things she is missing?
I think they set fires at night to increase the dramatics...it's much more frightening to think men might burst into your house, under cover of dark, while you sleep. And the imagery of the flames against a black sky is significant.
I agree with Garret that they government uses intimidation as a weapon in this society. They scare the citizens into getting rid of books. And, when all books are eventually gone, which will have to happen, what will the firemen do? They left the original fireman job of PUTTING OUT fires and went to STARTING fires. What next? They remind me of kindergarten children, they play one game, and once they are bored, they move onto the next available thing.
Do the fireman actually go out every night and do they catch people alot with books? I agree that this society doesnt value life in any form and I dont think people have good relationships with eachother so there is no compassion towards oneanother.
I think that the game with the dog does show that the people dont really care because the children kill eachother as well and no one stops it. The game with the dog could symbolize that the people actually do have some kind of fascination with learning.
Kelsie, I love your question! Why don't people have pets? Do they think that they're too much responsibility? Clarisse said that people aren't responsible anymore, could that be why they don't have a real pet, or a real responsibility?
BEAUTIFUL connection to Macbeth, Haley. I completely agree. Especially when we are reading it, and in our society, books are encouraged! It appears to us that it is extremely foul. To them, it is fair.
But is everyone equal? Some are stuck in their houses with the same routine, like Montag's wife, and others, like Montag, are going out into the world and working.
In response to Kelsie's question, I think that they have lost intrest in having real pets. Why would you want to take care of a pet if you could just have a virtual one?
They place a much shallower value on life, espescially thier own, the fireman who commited sucide it an example of what happens when someone of this society relizes they are not happy. They place so much value on being happy they can't stand not being unhappy.Also, daniel there is not world peace.
I agree with Hannah when she says you can't succeed. This society doesn't like the competition that adults and even children nowadays face in our society. They want everyone to know the same things. I think that this might be part of book burning, because by reading books people get information that others don't get.
I wonder if this society has computers and the internet...if so, is it illegal to read webpages? Is the practice of reading banned, or simply the books?
I agree with Dan. I think that this society is peaceful? we look at this so negatively but is our society really that much better? We read books but in some ways it just causes competition and our world is not peaceful. So knowledge or peace and equality?
I think Mark brings up another excellent point. Will they ever burn every book? That's many books. It would seem that, of course, the fireman couldn't possibly find every book in the society.
Mark brings up a good point. If there are no more books to burn, then what will happen to the job of the fireman and will there be something new to destroy like certain television shows?
Kelsie says burned books=success. I disagree. I think that whenever you have something to do other than watch tv and be so lonely that you start naming the characters as your "Relatives" then you are succeeding. Only firefighters succeed.
What Mark said, what if all books are never gone? I know they burn them all but what if somewhere underground or something, there are people still writing books and giving them to people
How do the firemen know they need to go burn a house? Now, when there is a fire we call firemen to come put it out, expecting that they will hurry and know where to go. Why do the firemen hurry in the book to go burn books, and how are they informed what houses have books?
I also wonder that, Grace. Is it the reading, or the books? Is there internet? They watch TV... which would probably imply that there is no text or reading.
Are the firemen the only jobs that anyone can have? what about the workers that pumped montags wifes stomach? How are these jobs decided for people? Are men and women equal in this society and are there any female firemen?
Grace brings up a very good point. I do not think they have internet, i just think that the practice of reading books is banned. An example of the text to the text is when Mildred is "reading" a play but it is on a screen
I think that the conversation about whether Clarisse has books or not is interesting. She probably does. Can we make a connection between her behavior and whether she has books? Books cause happiness? Books cause emotion?
Clarisse is a person to suspect of having books, and I am pretty sure Guy has caught on to this by now. Why isn't he turning her in? Isn't it his duty to his job or does he not want to lose her trust and be a hypocruit because he has a hidden book himself?
Good question Kara! I think jobs are only given to people that seem like they have potential to overthrow the government. That sounds weird but I think they give them these jobs so they can make them think that the society is actually good! And they people that are content with toast, don't need jobs
Kara, that's a good point, are women and men equal and how do people decide their jobs? I think that men and women aren't equal considering there are only firemen and it was only men who came to pump the blood.
I feel bad for these people. They are living their lives in the most boring, unimaginable, unemotional, unexciting, (un-everything I guess) way possible
I admit, I have been confused about the grille. I truthfully believe that there are books behind it. I think that the comment about the grille being representative of a place where his secrets are kept is interesting. I respectfully disagree, I completely believe that there are books.
Heres a quote for Alyssa... "Stop and smell the flowers" these people need to do this, like what Zach said. This is a prediction toward what our soceity will eventually be like, becuase we are not appreciating the time we have and what we have. (Who knew picking apart a book could be so complex?)
They have fast cars, because the government doesn't want the citizens to stop and smell the roses, or realize all the things they are missing around them (I forgot who in the circle said this but I definently agree). If people start questioning what they see around them, the gov. no longer has control.
I feel like our society today is fundamentally different from the society of Fahrenheit 451, in that our society is based on communication(even if it is not verbal communication)and in their society, everyone no longer talks...
I have a question... Things weren't always this way, so who rewrote the history books? How did they change what EVERYONE in the world though? Was it a work in progress, and how did the people during the trasition time view the changes?
I think meeting clarise will change his mind about his job a little bit because he might realize that he likes books and that burning them is turning people into robots
I think that fire does consume the firemans life. I dont think montag is the same and in a way that makes him insecure and it almost makes him feel different and even more issolated. Clarisse is really the only character in the book that notices his differences? why does montag have these visions of clarisse before he actually met her. Is she really just a symbol in this book of curiosity, happiness and wisdom
What happened at the house where they burned the books? Did books fall on him? Did he take one? Has he always taken a book from each house? Or was this the first time?
Its interesting how perdictable our culture was to soemone who just stopped to watch us. Bradbury made only slightly exagerated prediction of our culture.
My question is why Montag would stay with Mildred. Which the description we are given, Mildred seems like a... boring hag! (Ok, that was harsh, but it was referring to Macbeth if that counts for anything) But she does seems so very dull. And unintelligent. Why would a man like Montag, who is obviously intelligent in some way, stay with such a woman who does nothing but beg for more television?
Excellent question Abbie! Like in the book how it says that Benjamin Franklin was the first fireman and that they always burned books, who changed that?
Even if there is a change how long will it be before it takes place because people are so used to doing things how they have done for their whole life.
I agree with Haley when she says that everyone in this society is brainwashed. Even in our society today everybody is brainwashed into doing whatever society tells us to. Brainwashing is not a new idea for government in general.
I think Grace brings up a great point, about the TV... are they written as a script, and read? It's confusing, about the burning of the books.. what qualifies as a book, what doesn't?
Cory brings up an interesting point, Guy was the one who looked up at the moon when no one else would, but why is Guy able to break from what they others were taught to do? Is it because he has broken the law and has the immoral job of a fireman?
I think that Clarisse, along with the book Montag took before the burning, will influence Montag to really look at his life. Both Clarisse and the book will also give Montag knowledge that will help him look at the world in a different way, possibly allowing him to change the way humans live.
I agree with Micheala that he might have been taking books for a long time because he has a fascinatiion to him that could only come from having more knowledge than the average person.
Alyssa! Sorry, responding. Yes Mildred did find out. when he was "sick" (i believe he was overwhelmed with guilt) she reached back to fix his pillow and felt the book. she realized what it was, but then when Montag told her to go away, she forgot about it and watched TV. So she has the attention span of.. I don't know, a fly? This is what Bradbury is predicting for our future. p.s sorry if i hinted/ruined a part of the book :(
I think Mark's wrong. I think that books will never be legal again. They are going to burn them all and the government will just turn everyone in the zombies that watch TV and eat toast all day
Alyssa said that Clairissa(sp?) had a good life of TV and toast, but do they really enjoy that? Lives that look good to us aren't always great. Perhaps she knows some history about what old society was like and she feels like life could be better if the government wasn't so controlling.
How would it be like living with someone who didn't really care about your life? How would it effect your veiw on yourself? Would you feel less important? Or is it just normal in this society to not care about others around you?
Does what happened to Mildred, with the pills, happen to other people? Was it on purpose or by accident? Either way, it tells us of the society: maybe people, inside, are depressed... but yet, they aren't really supposed to think right? Also, if she forgets, and keeps taking the pills, what has happened in her head? It's odd.
I would say that his wife would notice and tell, because she really has no love for Montag. THat is how people are able to turn eachother in because they have no sense of community, they just are.
Thinking back to the survey we did with our phones, asking 'Are history books accurate?' Clearly, in this book, ANY history can be altered or conformed.
I don't think it's actually the firemen who we should blame. They are just as brainwashed as everyone else, so I think we should blame only the government.
I sort of agree with Megan when she says that the society will be exposed to books, but I still don't think they will have the freedom of expression. This government, wherever it is, likes control and will do anything to keep it. I think the only way to get freedom of expression is to overthrow the government.
I feel like the firemen in the society are like princes. They are treated royally in a way, and can actually have a opinion as long as it doesn't stray too fan/ r (don't get too crazy, people..)
I disagree, i think the firemen are partly to blame beatty says every fireman goes through this so it means they have a choice and they are still slightly brainwashed but have more of an idea than the rest.
I agree with Moritz when she says that Montag is not Clairise's (once again sp?) stalker. I think that he wil always remmeber the way Clairise made him think but I don't think that he will love her forever in the creeper way.
Garrett...I think they have a government, it might not be how it is now; however, even if they don't have a government now, they are still the ones who wanted to change society and ultimately acted on that.
At first glance it seems that people just don't care what others think because nobody talks, but it is their want to belong that forces them to change who they are to "fit the mold" that is set out for them, and this is how the transition to this society evolved. It is also why people will notice and turn in people who are not "normal". It is also why they were able to change history.
I think that Montag almost has a mask on and when he is with Clarisse is with him, it is like clarisse lets him think and be free and truely be himself. I disagree with Michaela, I dont really think that society looks up to the fireman, in a way they are just people that are intimidating to everyone.
they proclaimed him insane because he read books, which is the theme of the entire book
ReplyDeleteAlyssa's question reminds me of the phrase 'innocent until proven guilty'...the books are their proof of the man's guilt, or insanity.
ReplyDeleteI think that they thought he was insane because he was still looking for knowledge and the ability to learn which in this soceity, it is viewed as being insane
ReplyDeleteThey proclaimed him insane because he was diffrent then the average citizen much like the Pedestrian in the short story we read.
ReplyDeleteI believe that they proclaimed him insane because the society in this book makes people believe that books are bad so the society automatically shuns those who disobey
ReplyDeleteGood question, Haley... what does the world look like? Is America still a world power? Most likely. Also, there's the other good point... where is the story taking place? One would assume America.
ReplyDeleteThe society in the US is usually more free than other societies, so I think that if the US is like this then most countries could be similar to this, or even worse.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Zach. I dont think the people have the knowledge of wanting to travel and if they did maybe that would change the way that view the outside world
ReplyDeleteThey thought he was insane because he thought he could hide the books from the government and the firemen.
ReplyDeleteNatalie, i do think it is America because of the way they talk about the government
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag cares for finding something else to make him happy because he is almost realizing that he can have emotion and there is something else out there to make him happy
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag at the beginning of the book valued his work and Mildred. Now, however, he values the girl and the experiences she has given him.
ReplyDeleteAt the begining, he is a slave to feeling good like the rest until he meets the girl, they have an interesting relationship with. he adopts her ideals, begins to think about things. He befriends her but doesnt relize his new found feelings until she dies
ReplyDeleteTo answer Haley's question about what it's like outside of the world, I don't think that they have the same banning, because they have a different government. Looking into the present time, each government is run differently than the other. I think that foreign governments at this time has different rules
ReplyDeleteI think that currently Montag doesn't really care about anything and is trying to discover himself.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dan. I think that the girl has changed his outlook and I think he always kind of thought the way society was wrong but he almost felt alone because no one else thought things like he did. Once he finds the girl I think it gave him a sense of courage to question society
ReplyDeleteWith what Mikeala said, does happiness exist in this world? or are people just content with their lives
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone in the circle in saying that the book doesn't necessary say it takes place in the USA. Grace makes a valid point in referring back to "innocent until proven guilty" but possibly... could this book use that phrase with suspects of book thieving by saying "guilty until proven innocent". They immediately will take away people to an insane asylum, so they are automatically guilty. this society flips the phrase so now people are automatically guilty, and really don't have a chance to be proven innocent.
ReplyDeleteIn this society, being happy is being normal or being in their regular routine. Normality in this society is happy.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Daniel, once he meets Clarisse, she is so different that it sparks thoughts in him. When he does think that he isn't happy, it really changes him. I think that a great question was asked: what does happiness mean, in that society? What does it mean in general? Is our idea of happiness today different than that of the time in the novel? I also like Zach's comment: "ignorance is bliss."
ReplyDeleteI think that in this society almost everyone is happy because they have everything that they know they can have.
ReplyDeleteI believe that he cares about Mildred indeed but he is quite dependent on his regular visits with Clarisse, and when you need something it obviously means a kit to you.
ReplyDeleteI think Montag has gotten happiness from the girl he's met. She makes him think of things outside of the usual way he sees things. I agree with Mark, Montag realizes that he isn't really happy now but he could be.
ReplyDeleteWith what Mark said, maybe he just realized that he is not happy after he met her. He showed her what life could be, outside of toast and TV
ReplyDeleteAgreeing with Mikalea and Kelsie, possibly the term "happy" in this soceity has a new meaning, and that "happy" for these citizens are unemotional, and regular.
ReplyDeleteOff of what Garrett D said, i actually don't think they are happy. They may think they are because they have everything they think they need but they don't really show emotions anymore
ReplyDeleteIn the society, they are not aware of anything beyond what they are told. They feel what the society tells them to feel.
ReplyDeleteThey don't seem dumb just puposely ignorant and relucatant to lose that ignorace
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kara, I think that Clarisse enables him to question society. To us, she seems normal. When Montag is so astounded by her nature, it really tells us about the society.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Natalie's question, I do not think that there can be a world power in this kind of society becAause no one really cares about it, and that is essentially what gives a world power power.
ReplyDeleteI think that they dont really have emotions. I disagree with Dan. I dont think that these people choose to not show there emotions but due to they way that they were brought up, emotions have slowly dissapeared and I dont think it is as important in the world.
ReplyDeleteI think they do have emotions. For example, Guy feels guilty, sad, and scared throughout the story. Also, the girl that he meets also has emotions, like fear of her classmates. I think that the people just has problems showing their emotions. In this society, it's not important to show them.
ReplyDeleteEmotions, well I think they have emotions but they are emotions that are programed in their brain to occur when they are met with a certain situation (just like Mikaela said. He does't have feeling but emotions they are different.
ReplyDeleteI think what Dan is saying about Montag showing more emotions relates to his senses- he tastes the rain, touches the dandelion, etc. It's weird to think that people have abandoned simple joys in that world, and only rely on sight.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Corey, after doing a routine a thousand times, you don't really have any emotion towards it anymore
ReplyDeleteHannah says that they go through a routine every day that makes it unemotional. I disagree, becuase you can go through a regular routine, but it is your choice if you would like to have emotion or change up the schedule.
ReplyDeleteDan says that everyone tries to hide their emotions in the society of Farenheight 451. That hasn't really changed in our society, because people still try and hide their emotions. You can't always tell when somebody is upset or angry. You never know how people really feel.
ReplyDeleteI think that it is her courage to stand up and be different that she gives to Montag, and being yourself is what truly gives you happiness
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jack, the people have a very spacific veiw on how life has to be there, and people are purposely ignoring their emotions and the government to create an illusion that everything is better than it really is.
ReplyDeleteI think that only a select few really have emotions ( the fireman ) because they have seen books and know how much they are missing out on. Also I think that the people who have some knowledge about what there might be might be somewaht happy because they know what is beyond autopilot.
ReplyDeleteI really agree with Grace, they don't appreciate the little things anymore. they're just trying to race through life. For instance, how they had to make the bill boards longer so people could read as they speed past them
ReplyDeleteMy question is, why are they so regular? Is the government forcing them to, or are they just letting the society of the time brainwash them while they sit, dumbfounded, watching television?
ReplyDeleteI disagree, she was seen as strange because she was content not deliriously happy. She questioned and thought.
ReplyDeleteI agree with hannah! books kind of represent emotions and without the books, there is no more emotion
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sydney, the people with books must be the happy ones. I am happy when I read. What is the point of this society? It seems it is plain and unhappy. When many people say that they have known nothing else, I agree. The people with books are holding onto what the world used to look like, I suppose.
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag almost feels a regret that he is having to burn the books that the people truly care about.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sidney. There is different types of happiness and I think the people that dont read and live the same routine everyday think there happy, only because that is all they have known. The people that are hiding the books are truely happy. The woman that died with her books had true compassion for reading and knowledge and that was very schocking for montag because compassion and passion is a rare and almost nonexistant thing in soceity
ReplyDeleteWhen I think about Montag, I see someone who has believed something his entire life but has potential to learn and grow. Now that he has been exposed to something new and vital, he is soaking it all up, and this is changing his outlook on everything- his job, his wife, and himself.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the woman who refused to leave her house? What was that about?
ReplyDeleteWith what jack said; i think she's not just content but now quite happy either, but she's trying to be happy by thinking and questioning
ReplyDeleteAlso... is there fear within the people in the book when the citizens hide books, or do people hide books to rebel against the government? are they truly fearful or are they starting to get back to a rebellious stage, such as the "Dark ages" that the Captain was talking about.
ReplyDeleteThe book seems like it is a characature of the rea world, as if it were written to show ups our faults, and this is why it is possible to see ourselves in this society, or headed that way.
ReplyDeleteI think Sydney brings up a great point: that they are "only hurting things, not people." I would like to know more about this. Which things?
ReplyDeleteWhen burning books you burn all the history of the society, then it is difficult to recall and learn from mistakes, yes; but since they are starting a new society from scratch they don't need the old old history just the history from the beginning of the society, and they probabaly record events on paper but they are not releasing it to the public, just for their reference.
ReplyDeleteI think the woman who refused to leave her house decided that if she couldn't have books, she didn't want to be alive anymore
ReplyDeleteI think that the government of Farenheight 451 is very controlling. Mark says that the books might contain valuable information. I think that Mark is right, because they might have lessons that the government doesn't want them to know
ReplyDeleteThe firefighters weren't only hurting things, although it seemed that way. The books being burnt changed people and how they viewed things, so although it wasn't a direct effect on people, it really did end up hurting them.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie--is she a martyr?
ReplyDeleteDo the kids actually kill eachother? why would they? YOu get the sense through this book that is is almost a perfect society but once the book says that the kids are killing eachother and things it questions what the reader thinks about the book? Is the only punishment burning books?
ReplyDeleteIt seems that their society really has no justice system because everyone feels and does what society tells them so there is no need for punishment besides the burning of books.
ReplyDeleteFor Natalie, the "Things" are the books. just meaningless, no emotion
ReplyDeleteI dont think there is really a need for a large crime control system because their society doesnt do wrong because they can only be the same as eachother. If everyone does it then it isnt really a crime.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Corey. It seems like life is not valued in this society. Everyone is just the same and they contribute in no way to the society, therefore they are not considered important.
ReplyDeleteWell she felt that she had gained more from her books than from anything else and it was the RATIONAL dision to stay that brought montag to his senses, made him think about what he was missing.
ReplyDeletei agree with zach, in their society, it seems that you don't need an education to succeed
ReplyDeleteCould this kind of society create enough cluelessness to turn into a hitler-like regime?
ReplyDeleteMoritz's question: I believe that the woman who would rather die with her books rather than live without them was the "spark" in Montag that caused him to feel guilt inside him. It was a revelation to him, that burning people's houses and even KILLING them was actually wrong. It just seems so... crazy to us because we live in a society in which burning books seems so unimaginable! Also, he keeps referring to the ventilator grille, which makes us wonder what could be in it that had made the secret become so apparent in his attitude.
ReplyDeleteIn our society school is a very important and we look poorly upon the people who drop out. I dont think think they take it as seriously as we do and maybe its because there is only a set knowledge that people need to know so why go to school?
ReplyDeletei think the girl, clarisse i think, just shows montag the little pleasures in life and not just the big picture. sort of that life is a journey not a destination
ReplyDeleteClarisse has made Montag more aware of his surroundings and emotions. She showed him that there is more beyond what society expects of him.
ReplyDeleteIs there any sucsess in this society it seems the illusion of sucsses are imposed upon people.
ReplyDeleteSounds like the people of the society are expendable, life is not a prized and fragile gift given to everyone, and it is just a routine and if you happen to pass there is another robot person that can fill in the empty spot. I wonder if there is unemployment in this society.
ReplyDeleteare there expectations in this society? do people stive for things and want to be looked upon highly in soceity or is everyone looked at the same so no one has any goal or aspirations?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mortiz/Kelsie, yes, the woman is a martyr for their time
ReplyDeleteThe woman who didn't leave her house was probably trying to take a stand. The firefighters probably see this happening a lot, so it didn't do much, but I think her thought was that if she stood there, they wouldn't burn the house. She tried to stand up for herself, but it didn't work out.
ReplyDeleteI think Montag's eyes have been opened by Clarrise because she has taught him that you dont have to do everything just like everyone else and you can observe things outside of what most people enjoy.
ReplyDeleteI think Clarisse is a much better education than what she has described in the schools. Is it really necessary to get an education when it's not teaching you anything?
ReplyDeleteI think the woman that they killed was a way for Montag to come to a reality that he wouldn't have done without Clarisse gettting him thinking.
ReplyDeleteThe little things don't seem as important when there's no use for them.
ReplyDeleteIn this society, they use certain objects and only pay attention to the objects that will get them through the day.
I agree that Clarisse is questioning his way of life. In turn, he questions his own life, at it is obvious he does so.
ReplyDeleteAlyssa's question: i think that they were only called at night because people wouldn't dare to read during the day because they think they will be caught
ReplyDeleteI believe that all the fires are at night so that the people around know that they are reading and can shun them.
ReplyDeleteMy question is that why would neighbors tell on their neighbors? When they know that they are sentencing them to prison... or even death?
ReplyDeleteI think that the reason they burn at night is so that people won't find out. If people find out, then people are going to get curious and wonder what is going on. Their curiousity might cause them to break the rules.
ReplyDeleteDo the people in society come out to watch the show? do they enjoy seeing books burned. In our society when someone gets arrested or there is a fire people are curious but not in a good way? are these things positive? Do kids see this as an example of what happens to people who strive for knowledge
ReplyDeleteI agree, I think that the time of day is significant to the entire idea. Does the dark represent the secrets of reading, and the secrets of knowledge?
ReplyDeleteI like Mark's metaphor.
The firemen always burn books at night becasue thats when it burns the brightest. The government hopes to set an example to the citizens of what the result is of reading books.
ReplyDeletei enjoy mark's metaphor
ReplyDeletei like Natalies point! books sort of represent secrets!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Garrett that the fires at night might be for the purpose of striking fear into the people that are surrounding the area where the books were found.
ReplyDeleteI think they burn the books at night so that others around them can be warned: if they have books, they can expect this to happen to them.
ReplyDeleteWhy is everyone afraid of the firemen? and why don't they burn during the day?
ReplyDeleteI don't thnk that these people realize exactly what is going to happen to them. They see reading books as evil, like we see crime now, and expect thre to be punishment.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Megan. Showing the citizens what could happen. Yet, it's so wrong, the idea of a big show of burning books.
ReplyDeleteSince everything is so routine once Clarisse opens Guy's eyes to the little things he feeds on his curiosity of everything he was missing before. Once he has a taste of the sweet surprises he wants more and more and observes everything around him. Will this spread to his wife? Will guy cue her in on the little things she is missing?
ReplyDeleteI'd like to pose a question: Why don't they have real pets anymore? Why do they just have a robot dog?
ReplyDeleteI think they set fires at night to increase the dramatics...it's much more frightening to think men might burst into your house, under cover of dark, while you sleep. And the imagery of the flames against a black sky is significant.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Garret that they government uses intimidation as a weapon in this society. They scare the citizens into getting rid of books. And, when all books are eventually gone, which will have to happen, what will the firemen do? They left the original fireman job of PUTTING OUT fires and went to STARTING fires. What next? They remind me of kindergarten children, they play one game, and once they are bored, they move onto the next available thing.
ReplyDelete*the government (correction)
ReplyDeleteDo the fireman actually go out every night and do they catch people alot with books?
ReplyDeleteI agree that this society doesnt value life in any form and I dont think people have good relationships with eachother so there is no compassion towards oneanother.
I think that society has lost value in life when they lost the privilage of expressing themselves and how they feel.
ReplyDeleteI think that the game with the dog does show that the people dont really care because the children kill eachother as well and no one stops it. The game with the dog could symbolize that the people actually do have some kind of fascination with learning.
ReplyDeleteKelsie, I love your question! Why don't people have pets? Do they think that they're too much responsibility? Clarisse said that people aren't responsible anymore, could that be why they don't have a real pet, or a real responsibility?
ReplyDeleteBEAUTIFUL connection to Macbeth, Haley. I completely agree. Especially when we are reading it, and in our society, books are encouraged! It appears to us that it is extremely foul. To them, it is fair.
ReplyDeletei don't think success exists in this society, maybe only for the firefighters; burned books=success
ReplyDeleteBut is everyone equal? Some are stuck in their houses with the same routine, like Montag's wife, and others, like Montag, are going out into the world and working.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Kelsie's question, I think that they have lost intrest in having real pets. Why would you want to take care of a pet if you could just have a virtual one?
ReplyDeleteThey place a much shallower value on life, espescially thier own, the fireman who commited sucide it an example of what happens when someone of this society relizes they are not happy. They place so much value on being happy they can't stand not being unhappy.Also, daniel there is not world peace.
ReplyDeleteSucess in this society is doing your job efficently, on time, everyday, with no complaining.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Hannah when she says you can't succeed. This society doesn't like the competition that adults and even children nowadays face in our society. They want everyone to know the same things. I think that this might be part of book burning, because by reading books people get information that others don't get.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if this society has computers and the internet...if so, is it illegal to read webpages? Is the practice of reading banned, or simply the books?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dan. I think that this society is peaceful? we look at this so negatively but is our society really that much better? We read books but in some ways it just causes competition and our world is not peaceful. So knowledge or peace and equality?
ReplyDeleteI think Mark brings up another excellent point. Will they ever burn every book? That's many books. It would seem that, of course, the fireman couldn't possibly find every book in the society.
ReplyDeleteMark brings up a good point. If there are no more books to burn, then what will happen to the job of the fireman and will there be something new to destroy like certain television shows?
ReplyDeleteKelsie says burned books=success.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. I think that whenever you have something to do other than watch tv and be so lonely that you start naming the characters as your "Relatives" then you are succeeding. Only firefighters succeed.
I think that reading webages would not necesarily be banned, but rather that there would be nothing on the internet to read...
ReplyDeleteWhat Mark said, what if all books are never gone? I know they burn them all but what if somewhere underground or something, there are people still writing books and giving them to people
ReplyDeleteAre memories as valuable as books? Would you rather have no memories or no books? Does realistic possibilities play a part in your choice?
ReplyDeleteHow do the firemen know they need to go burn a house? Now, when there is a fire we call firemen to come put it out, expecting that they will hurry and know where to go. Why do the firemen hurry in the book to go burn books, and how are they informed what houses have books?
ReplyDeleteI also wonder that, Grace. Is it the reading, or the books? Is there internet? They watch TV... which would probably imply that there is no text or reading.
ReplyDeleteAre the firemen the only jobs that anyone can have? what about the workers that pumped montags wifes stomach? How are these jobs decided for people? Are men and women equal in this society and are there any female firemen?
ReplyDeleteI agree with rebecca, what if there is nothing on the internet to read? Would Google and Bing be banned?
ReplyDeleteI think he already has by thinking and not returning right to the old ways after beatty talked to him.
ReplyDeleteTo respond to Nicole, "The strongest memory is as solid as the weakest ink." Memories fade, but written things leave a distinguishable mark.
ReplyDeleteIs a change in montag's society coming soon because he is becoming more drawn into the fascination of books.
ReplyDeleteI have a question, How did this society get this way? What kind of process could lead to people accepting this society?
ReplyDeleteGrace brings up a very good point. I do not think they have internet, i just think that the practice of reading books is banned. An example of the text to the text is when Mildred is "reading" a play but it is on a screen
ReplyDeleteYes, Alyssa, there are books in the ventilator grille.
ReplyDeleteI think that the conversation about whether Clarisse has books or not is interesting. She probably does. Can we make a connection between her behavior and whether she has books? Books cause happiness? Books cause emotion?
ReplyDeleteClarisse is a person to suspect of having books, and I am pretty sure Guy has caught on to this by now. Why isn't he turning her in? Isn't it his duty to his job or does he not want to lose her trust and be a hypocruit because he has a hidden book himself?
ReplyDeleteHow did the progression to book burning and this wacked society happen?
ReplyDeleteGood question Kara! I think jobs are only given to people that seem like they have potential to overthrow the government. That sounds weird but I think they give them these jobs so they can make them think that the society is actually good! And they people that are content with toast, don't need jobs
ReplyDeleteWould a script be considered a book? If so, how would TV shows be written and rehearsed? This book leaves a lot of questions to be answered.
ReplyDeleteKara, that's a good point, are women and men equal and how do people decide their jobs? I think that men and women aren't equal considering there are only firemen and it was only men who came to pump the blood.
ReplyDeleteYea how do they turn going that fast?
ReplyDeleteI feel bad for these people. They are living their lives in the most boring, unimaginable, unemotional, unexciting, (un-everything I guess) way possible
ReplyDeleteGarrett, good question. I think the government was afraid that people were becoming too powerful and they were afraid they would overthrow it
ReplyDeleteClarisse might not necesarly have books, but I think that the simple ability to talk is what gives her her personality.
ReplyDeleteSociety has evolved to where everyone is always worrying about efficency instead of what is happening in the moment.
ReplyDeleteIt's like what Mrs. Moritz..and Zach were saying before: In our society today, we have no patience, we text our friends to get things done quickly.
ReplyDeleteI admit, I have been confused about the grille. I truthfully believe that there are books behind it. I think that the comment about the grille being representative of a place where his secrets are kept is interesting. I respectfully disagree, I completely believe that there are books.
ReplyDeletei agree with Michaela, they are not living life to the fullest at all, or in any form
ReplyDeleteHeres a quote for Alyssa... "Stop and smell the flowers" these people need to do this, like what Zach said. This is a prediction toward what our soceity will eventually be like, becuase we are not appreciating the time we have and what we have.
ReplyDelete(Who knew picking apart a book could be so complex?)
I agree with Zach. I mean, look at us. We don't really slow down, do we? This maxed-out world is similar to ours, is it not?
ReplyDeleteThey have fast cars, because the government doesn't want the citizens to stop and smell the roses, or realize all the things they are missing around them (I forgot who in the circle said this but I definently agree). If people start questioning what they see around them, the gov. no longer has control.
ReplyDeleteI tink that Montag is really different because he wants something more and desires more knowledge than the rest of them. CURIOSITY?
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to think that this was a prediction made in the 1960's...our society to them might be as drastic as Montag's society to us.
ReplyDeleteI feel like our society today is fundamentally different from the society of Fahrenheit 451, in that our society is based on communication(even if it is not verbal communication)and in their society, everyone no longer talks...
ReplyDeleteFire is really the only exciting thing in Montag's life. As a result, the concept of fire and destruction pocesses him.
ReplyDeleteI have a question... Things weren't always this way, so who rewrote the history books? How did they change what EVERYONE in the world though? Was it a work in progress, and how did the people during the trasition time view the changes?
ReplyDeleteI think meeting clarise will change his mind about his job a little bit because he might realize that he likes books and that burning them is turning people into robots
ReplyDeleteI think that fire does consume the firemans life. I dont think montag is the same and in a way that makes him insecure and it almost makes him feel different and even more issolated. Clarisse is really the only character in the book that notices his differences? why does montag have these visions of clarisse before he actually met her. Is she really just a symbol in this book of curiosity, happiness and wisdom
ReplyDeleteWhat happened at the house where they burned the books? Did books fall on him? Did he take one? Has he always taken a book from each house? Or was this the first time?
ReplyDeleteIts interesting how perdictable our culture was to soemone who just stopped to watch us. Bradbury made only slightly exagerated prediction of our culture.
ReplyDeleteMy question is why Montag would stay with Mildred. Which the description we are given, Mildred seems like a... boring hag! (Ok, that was harsh, but it was referring to Macbeth if that counts for anything) But she does seems so very dull. And unintelligent. Why would a man like Montag, who is obviously intelligent in some way, stay with such a woman who does nothing but beg for more television?
ReplyDeleteI think Garrett makes a valid point, but I would say that everyone in this society has curiosity they have just been taught to suppress it...
ReplyDeleteExcellent question Abbie! Like in the book how it says that Benjamin Franklin was the first fireman and that they always burned books, who changed that?
ReplyDeleteEven if there is a change how long will it be before it takes place because people are so used to doing things how they have done for their whole life.
ReplyDeleteResponding to Natalie, yes, possibly he has taken a book from every house. I believe he has.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Haley when she says that everyone in this society is brainwashed. Even in our society today everybody is brainwashed into doing whatever society tells us to. Brainwashing is not a new idea for government in general.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the other people in the society, Michaela, I'd say Mildred is one hot commodity in comparison.
ReplyDeleteI think Grace brings up a great point, about the TV... are they written as a script, and read? It's confusing, about the burning of the books.. what qualifies as a book, what doesn't?
ReplyDeleteCory brings up an interesting point, Guy was the one who looked up at the moon when no one else would, but why is Guy able to break from what they others were taught to do? Is it because he has broken the law and has the immoral job of a fireman?
ReplyDeleteIf you have read ahead or have read the book before, please do not spoil the story.
ReplyDeleteAlyssa's question: I think she would tell! she seems completely brainwashed to this society
ReplyDeleteKelsie, in response to your question, If this has been changed, how much else has been?
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag's wife is too involved in what is happening on the television screen to notice anyhting in Montag's life.
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarisse, along with the book Montag took before the burning, will influence Montag to really look at his life. Both Clarisse and the book will also give Montag knowledge that will help him look at the world in a different way, possibly allowing him to change the way humans live.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Micheala that he might have been taking books for a long time because he has a fascinatiion to him that could only come from having more knowledge than the average person.
ReplyDeleteI think that she did forget that she was taking pills and eventually overdosed. She doesnt have any emotion to motivate her to take her own life.
ReplyDeleteHow did they change everything for every single person? I don't understand how that worked, but I guess it goes along with the brainwashed culture.
ReplyDeleteAlyssa! Sorry, responding. Yes Mildred did find out. when he was "sick" (i believe he was overwhelmed with guilt) she reached back to fix his pillow and felt the book. she realized what it was, but then when Montag told her to go away, she forgot about it and watched TV. So she has the attention span of.. I don't know, a fly? This is what Bradbury is predicting for our future.
ReplyDeletep.s sorry if i hinted/ruined a part of the book :(
I think Mark's wrong. I think that books will never be legal again. They are going to burn them all and the government will just turn everyone in the zombies that watch TV and eat toast all day
ReplyDeleteAlyssa said that Clairissa(sp?) had a good life of TV and toast, but do they really enjoy that? Lives that look good to us aren't always great. Perhaps she knows some history about what old society was like and she feels like life could be better if the government wasn't so controlling.
ReplyDeleteHow do you think couples are paired in this society? 10 to 1 it is not by love.
ReplyDeleteI predict that society will be exposed to books and the ability to express themselves in a major event involving Montag and Clarisse.
ReplyDeleteI think it will be a gradual change invloving the firemen, he will probably try to change the friemen and eliminate the problem at the source.
ReplyDeleteHow would it be like living with someone who didn't really care about your life? How would it effect your veiw on yourself? Would you feel less important? Or is it just normal in this society to not care about others around you?
ReplyDeleteDoes what happened to Mildred, with the pills, happen to other people? Was it on purpose or by accident? Either way, it tells us of the society: maybe people, inside, are depressed... but yet, they aren't really supposed to think right? Also, if she forgets, and keeps taking the pills, what has happened in her head? It's odd.
ReplyDeleteI would say that his wife would notice and tell, because she really has no love for Montag. THat is how people are able to turn eachother in because they have no sense of community, they just are.
ReplyDeleteBringing up change again, how will the enlightend people change the minds of the stubborn people and overcome the oppposition to the change.
ReplyDeleteThinking back to the survey we did with our phones, asking 'Are history books accurate?' Clearly, in this book, ANY history can be altered or conformed.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's actually the firemen who we should blame. They are just as brainwashed as everyone else, so I think we should blame only the government.
ReplyDeleteTo answer Nicole's question I think that society pairs couples based on how they view compatibility.
ReplyDeleteI sort of agree with Megan when she says that the society will be exposed to books, but I still don't think they will have the freedom of expression. This government, wherever it is, likes control and will do anything to keep it. I think the only way to get freedom of expression is to overthrow the government.
ReplyDeletedisagreeing with Grace... This is not a history book, it doesn't have to be accurate. It is simply a prediction
ReplyDeleteAbbie said that we should blame the government but how much of a government do they reallly have?
ReplyDeleteTo make an edit to an earlier post of mine Cory was missspelled and I wanted to make that correction.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the firemen in the society are like princes. They are treated royally in a way, and can actually have a opinion as long as it doesn't stray too fan/ r (don't get too crazy, people..)
ReplyDelete*too far away (correction)
ReplyDeleteI disagree, i think the firemen are partly to blame beatty says every fireman goes through this so it means they have a choice and they are still slightly brainwashed but have more of an idea than the rest.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Garrett: is the government really that much of an influence anymore?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Moritz when she says that Montag is not Clairise's (once again sp?) stalker. I think that he wil always remmeber the way Clairise made him think but I don't think that he will love her forever in the creeper way.
ReplyDeleteGarrett...I think they have a government, it might not be how it is now; however, even if they don't have a government now, they are still the ones who wanted to change society and ultimately acted on that.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone explain to me why he keeps repeating numbers from 1 to 7.
ReplyDeleteWe don't even know if the government is controlling this...it could even be aliens.
ReplyDeleteAt first glance it seems that people just don't care what others think because nobody talks, but it is their want to belong that forces them to change who they are to "fit the mold" that is set out for them, and this is how the transition to this society evolved. It is also why people will notice and turn in people who are not "normal". It is also why they were able to change history.
ReplyDeleteDo you, alyssa, think that he is considering suside, or was during those couple of dark days we read?
ReplyDeleteI think that Montag almost has a mask on and when he is with Clarisse is with him, it is like clarisse lets him think and be free and truely be himself.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Michaela, I dont really think that society looks up to the fireman, in a way they are just people that are intimidating to everyone.
I think that he might be going through his day in the brain compilation paragraph.
ReplyDelete