I agree with Haley. Clarrise was the one that sparked his memory into that state of mind where he actually figured out what love was. Now we can see this because Mildred and Montag are already getting along better.
Are marriges arranged or are they like they are today? Because feelings are not a focus in this society so it may be a very superficial marrige arangment.
Clarisse shows Montag the depth to himself, Mildred is just his wife. Clarisse represents this wonderful transition for him, his wife shows him what he was before this change.
I think that Guy wanted to know when they met to renew the emotions that he may or may not have ever felt. He just wants to find a happiness that Clarrise showed him he did not have. They are kind o fseperated throughout the whole story and it doesn't seem like they interact like a married couple does today.
i believe they were arranged because he didnt really believe that he loved her and she didnt know what love meant... also when clarisse pointed out with the dandelian that he wasnt in love because up until then he didnt know or feel love
I think that marrages mean something different for us than they do for people in the book. Emotions aren't really a key part of their lives, but emotions are one of our main focuses. I think Montag wanted to marry Mildred but didn't ever actually love her.
I think that Clarisse might have "opened a door" in Montag, and he is starting to realize that he may not really be happy. Afterall...he said "I am not happy. I am not happy"
If the society doesn't know what love is...then the seperated beds make sense, they may be too afraid to be outcasts in society, and open up to each other enought to truly love on and other.
Back to what they said about Mildred and Montag really being in love. I think that there society doesn't fully understand the meaning of true love and that every couple may be like that. They are just going through the motions of live and they think they truely love each other but they really don't.
Off of what Kelsie said in the inner circle--do you sometimes feel that in you classes you are just learning facts (memorizing words) to pass the test and you are not really gaining knowledge?
I think that the purpose of them finding the books was to make the plot show that they might be growing closer togethor now that Clarrise is gone and Guy knows about feelings.
Good point Moritz. Yes in a way a king sized bed is bigger but you still get that picture that a couple that has a king sized bed would symbolize a picture of unity rather that two complete seperate beds...
"all men are created equal" but are they really... some are more athletic and some are smarter but in this book they try to make it so that they all ARE equal
I think alot of times in our society, we just go through the motions to get things over with. Montag doesn't really love Mildred, but getting married is just what you do.
To answer Mrs.Moritz's question-Yes. I was just thinking about that. If we are really learning for the purpose of learning, why do we have grades, tests, etc? Most students I know learn the information for just long enough to use it, then it disappears.
Moritz, I think that a lot of the time we learn facts that don't bennifit us any. We go home and memorize facts so we can get good grades, but really that's not helping most kids gain real knowledge.
I contemplated the meaning of the smell of kerosene as well. I believe that the meaning of the smell getting to him is to show a guilt since the old lady died.
I think that the change in smell from "perfume" to making him vomit showed that his heart changed and he realized that he really didn't like his job and realized that when he was trying to help the community he wasn't.
he liked change.... but what happened to that liking? once he met clarisse he changed alot... like kelsey said did his point of view changed on bieng a firefighter?
I believe that at this point of the story (with Clarrises death) Guy starts to think more and more about his emotions and how he interacts with Mildred.
Kelsie had an intersting idea that people can feel smart but they really arn't... so in school we learn many facts, and some deeper thought happens but...do you feel smarter knowing the meaning of life (deeper thought) or 17 causes of World War 1(fact)?
I think that all men are created equal but if someone is smarter than another and can find new discoveries, society needs to acknowledge that and not make the smart one dumber than the other.
Haley: I dont think she is dead because since the government was dealing with it she may be locked up somewhere because someone found out she had books... and being questioned... Just a thought
Not to be mean, but for the story's plotline, i think it is better off that Clarisse is out of the picture. Now Montag can take control and he has to do it alone. He doesn't have Clarisse to lean on, he has to be his own person...make the change himself.
In response to Ms. Moritz's question, I think that a lot of the time all that is required is that you memmorize is the facts, and this is why people lose their love for learning and see it as a chore. If you can stick to this depth, the work does not seem pointless, but the problem is that the depth is no longeer required to get by, and so many students lose their love of learning when it is no longer an expectation to enjoy what they are learning, solely to get a good grade so that they can move on. Learning is more than memmorizing words, but you are not required to learn - only memmorize.
I think that Clarisse's death was not an accident because her and her family were becoming more and more suspisous to the government and it was just easier for the government to say it was an accident rather than them trying to get rid of her.
I think that there is a government because I think that the firefighters would have to get the permission to burn from someone unless they are the government.
I think that some outside force must have been the cause of her death. I dont however believe that it is the government that commited the murder ( if it was murder) because the government doesn seem to be prominant in the story but careless teenagers have been mentioned.
Megan said something about people killing each other, why is this acceptable? It doesn't seem like anyone is trying to change that fact, so why is it okay?
I find it interesting how Guy reacts to Clarisses dealth, he wants to brush it off his shoulder and gets very adgictated when Mildered brings her up... is he trying not to except the fact of her leaving/dealth or does he know other wise of how she died (maybe not an accident)?
I think that the censorship of books started with the people because they sort of censored it themselves by forcing the government to eliminate offensive books.
Garrett good point the government has barely been mentioned, so how is it obvious that they were the cause of her dealth? Reckless teenager is as likely as government.
I think it is common that people are killed because it talks about how the kids in their society are very reckless and don't even think about if what they are doing is right.
Why does censoring books affect their society so much? If our society censored books, there would still be ways of gaining knowledge and creating ideas.
We seem to be censoring ourselves. Like Beatty says, we shorten everything, need instant gratification, etc. This just allows real censorship to occur more frequently, and easier.
when the firefighters read the books the start to learn more than the people do and this isnt fair because then they may change their decision about burning books. have they all read a book AT some time or another?
Connection: If Clarisse's death was on purpose, it could be similar to the many deaths in Macbeth. Someone was hired to kill someone else to make their life eaiser. Macbeth hired people to kill King Duncan to make the pathway to the thorne simple and clear. In Fahrenheit 451, someone may have killed Clarisse on purpose to make it easier to enforce NO BOOKS! Clarisse may have begun to rub off on people,and they may realize the situation and take action. I think it is really logical that Clarisse was killed purposeful, because she had a good, strong way of makeing people (such as Montag) realize the problems in a society and want to make a change. I don't think that the government could control everone (no matter the size of government or city) if they all decided to be against them...and make a change.
To Rebecca's post I think that there is some form of government outside of the firefighters because I think that there would be some sort of an uprising if the firefighters just made the rules and decided that they'd burn the books
Moritz, I think they are abusing their power by reading the books. They are the ones going out and burning homes and books, it's very hypocritical of them to be reading what they're trying to get rid of.
The firemen's curiosity is sparked by their proximity to books, and that this is why books are acceptable for them and not others. the point is to get rid of curiosity.
Jack: I agree that they are conforming to what the people want, but the newpapers are desiding what to take out that still is censorship on the media's part.
@ Mrs. Moritz - I don't think the fireman realzie the power they have...or how strongly they are enforcing the no books law. I think that the curiosity in a younger fireman such as Montag is a more powerful thought than just the knowledge of a job.
Garrett, you said that you think there is an underground circulation of books, and I agree. How else would people be getting books and have the ability to read them? Also, in a world of no books, how do people still know how to read? Is reading and writing still taught to people?
Firemen are given a grace period with "accidentally" taken books and on top of that they are not given a fair punishment. Firemen should have no special treatment they are citizens and deserve to be treated the same. The old women I do not think would be angry because of the fact that the fireman's curiosity could lead to more and more happening dealing with books it has to start with someone in power (firemen). She died for her cause thats what she wanted to do and if her cause was that important to her, anyone driven to take a book and read is a-oaky with her even with out punishment because those people can make things happen.
To Alyssa: I think that the point of only giving them 24 ours is to make them rush through it or not finish it because if they don't understand the plot they may see it how Beatty is trying to make them see books as.
Beatty knew about the history of firemen and books because when he was a firefighter earlier he did take books from the houses they burned, read them, and then burned them.
In addition to my last comment - I didn't mean that they didn't realize their job (obviously they were enforcing no books, because they were burning houses), but I think the firemen may just do their job...just like every other person. I don't think that they are constantly questioning their part in society and how it is effecting every indicidual.
I think it does Daniel because people who are "dumb" or "ugly" are generally the people that someone sees and automatically decides that they don't want to be around them.
Knowledge is power the more educated you are the more intune you are with what is going... which may make you question athority and the way of doing things, keeping the people uneducated about important issues reduces the chances of them rebelling agains the type of society they have and the authority that controls them.
I think that we do, I mean think about how we, as a culture place empahsis on being attractive and "cool", and make being smart and unahthletic bad. And that spreads to schools and those who are not "cool" are picked on and shunned
Daniel: I do think that our society shuns people who are different. Even if you just look around you can tell that there is a want to belong, and that is what their society is - the culmination of all that want to belong. Now they are left with the few people that want to be different that they must supress so that the rest can belong.
So if Mildred really does read these books with Montag, is she going to get in trouble for that, or is it justified because her husband is a firefighter?
I think Beatty is playing a game with montag, trying to make him feel like he doesnt really know anything. Beatty is trying to get Montag to be the "regular" fireman, like Clarrise told Montag about. Montag is different and has a purpose and Beatty is trying to destroy it.
I dont really think that Beatty is being a friend to Montag but rather warning him of bad things that will ensue the reading of books because he knows that Montag wont listen.
What happens if a person, like Montag, was found with books? He is sorta important to running society...would they punish him? Will people find out about his stash?
Mikaela: I think that the author of a book writes their characters in a certain way, and a lot of the time they see them as good or bad, but they do give their characters depth that allows readers to see the characters in a different way based on their own experience.
I think that he does have that authority and there probably wouldn't be a way for the others to find out. Maybe Beatty really believes what he says about how books are really nonsense.
Beatty to me seems like a captain that is also a father figure, and just warning Montag about what would happen to him if he got involved in the illegal book viewing, by telling him the history about the society with books but in a way that does not to shun or admire it just in the middle, knowing who Montage is and what he will take away from the story he told is to be carfull by keeping books at an arms length and maybe slowly bring them closer.
I think it is a strong possibility that Beatty reads. He is clearly more educated in history than others. He knew who Master Ridley was and claimed to be "full of bits and pieces". Where else could he pick up these tidbits?
Beatty does rule with fear in a sense, but he also uses the want they all have to belong in society to keep control.
He also has a very intese hatred of books, but he must also care about them deep down, and see the love people have in books, and this is the source of his hatred.
I think that Montag is crying because he is very overwelmed at the fact that he doesn't fully love his wife and he has been just wearing a mask for so long that when it is taken off he realizes that he actually was wearing a mask.
Burning People = Burning Books, well Montag did say that he felt bad burning book that people spent their life on and poured their hearts out in, behind books are people, so they are the same thing Burning Books is essentially burning someones thoughts as well as who they are so burning people happens before they die when their books are burning their purpose for living is nothing.
I don't know...maybe I am insensitive, but I really don't see a need for a big ceremony and a place to lay my deceased body. After I am dead, I don't really care...BUT, I do see the need for people who are left living to have this ceremonial conclusion. So, is the book really so wrong in that aspect?
Thats what i asked, but i think i agree with abbie and daniel he is probably trying to keep that knoledge to himself, so he feels different in a society when people are the same.
I feel like it's important to have a funeral for someone who has passed, it's kind of a sign of respect for that person and love, even though they're not going to know.
@ Mrs. Moritz - I think it's ok what they do with the bodies, but I do agree that it our society the still living people want a last goodbye. But in this society...other people aren't as affected by one's death. So they burn them, and don't feel the need for a ceremony.
They don't really care about anything, hence their lack of emotion surrunding death and books. They want to belong, and have sacrificed everything for this. Yet, because of this there is nt really anything to belong to.
Montag he is dragging his wife into this because he doesn't want to be turned in by her or he wants to start over their relationship where they are on the same page?
I think that fuenral is unessasary unless the person asked for it. Its a big deal, and many just want people they love to pay thier respects not a group of relations you may or may not have loved or even talked to.
I agree with Maria that he had to get her involved because she had felt the figure of the book and he needed her to go along with him or else it was probable that she would tell on him because their relationship isn't very strong.
Mikaela, I know that they don't care in their society, but I think that is a symbol for how they feel for everyone else, they've lost the respect we have, and are slowly losing, for people
I think funerals are way to sad. Those types of funerals I could deal without. If a funeral is celibrating a life and show the good things thatthe person did, I think it can be a very good thing for the people who were close to the deceased. So, i think the funerals are good but not for the deceased...
Griffin: I disagree with your spock reference. It isn't that he has no feeling, just that he supresses his feelings, and this is just what the people in this society have done.
The 3 walls why didn't the author already have 4 walls of t.v's? Because the 4th would completely close her in from redemption into connecting with her husband and that she would not be able to convert to read the books with Montag because she would be completely surrounded by media telling her to be an anit-book person.
That is true Garret because usually having children is a sign that a couple has emotions for each other and they decide that they want to care for someone with each other
Is our society that different from Mildred? Don't a lot of people sit in front of a tv all day or play COD or whatever form of entertainment they choose.
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ReplyDeleteI think that at some point Guy really loved her but when he met Clarisse he saw that the love he had for Mildred had deteriorated
ReplyDeleteI agree with Haley. Clarrise was the one that sparked his memory into that state of mind where he actually figured out what love was. Now we can see this because Mildred and Montag are already getting along better.
ReplyDeleteAre marriges arranged or are they like they are today? Because feelings are not a focus in this society so it may be a very superficial marrige arangment.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe that Guy actually ever loved Mildred because he did not really have emotion until Clarrise brought his true emotions out.
ReplyDeleteWhat does love mean in a society with no shown emotion?
ReplyDeleteClarisse shows Montag the depth to himself, Mildred is just his wife. Clarisse represents this wonderful transition for him, his wife shows him what he was before this change.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Garrett I think he just married milderd as a way to fit in
ReplyDeleteI think that meeting Clarisse, even though he doesn't love her, made Montag realize he isn't in love with Mildred.
ReplyDeleteI agree with megan, he needs someone to think like him, and without clarisse he need to teach mildred like clarisse tought him.
ReplyDeleteYeah--so seperate beds. Isn't a king size bed basically seperate beds?
ReplyDeleteI think that Guy wanted to know when they met to renew the emotions that he may or may not have ever felt. He just wants to find a happiness that Clarrise showed him he did not have. They are kind o fseperated throughout the whole story and it doesn't seem like they interact like a married couple does today.
ReplyDeletei believe they were arranged because he didnt really believe that he loved her and she didnt know what love meant... also when clarisse pointed out with the dandelian that he wasnt in love because up until then he didnt know or feel love
ReplyDeleteI think that marrages mean something different for us than they do for people in the book. Emotions aren't really a key part of their lives, but emotions are one of our main focuses. I think Montag wanted to marry Mildred but didn't ever actually love her.
ReplyDeleteya its so big that you have a ton of space to yourself
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarisse might have "opened a door" in Montag, and he is starting to realize that he may not really be happy. Afterall...he said "I am not happy. I am not happy"
ReplyDeleteIf the society doesn't know what love is...then the seperated beds make sense, they may be too afraid to be outcasts in society, and open up to each other enought to truly love on and other.
Back to what they said about Mildred and Montag really being in love. I think that there society doesn't fully understand the meaning of true love and that every couple may be like that. They are just going through the motions of live and they think they truely love each other but they really don't.
ReplyDeleteDoes the society have as shallow marrages like Montaq and Mildrid or is all the shallowness in their marrage because of Mildrid?
ReplyDeleteOff of what Kelsie said in the inner circle--do you sometimes feel that in you classes you are just learning facts (memorizing words) to pass the test and you are not really gaining knowledge?
ReplyDeleteI think that the purpose of them finding the books was to make the plot show that they might be growing closer togethor now that Clarrise is gone and Guy knows about feelings.
ReplyDeleteGood point Moritz. Yes in a way a king sized bed is bigger but you still get that picture that a couple that has a king sized bed would symbolize a picture of unity rather that two complete seperate beds...
ReplyDeleteWhat is happiness?
ReplyDelete"all men are created equal" but are they really... some are more athletic and some are smarter but in this book they try to make it so that they all ARE equal
ReplyDeleteLise what mrs.Moritz said i think you can get on autopilot in class and i think the society is too
ReplyDeleteWhat could be some of the reasons that people are filled with facts but really aren't taught to apply them?
ReplyDeleteI think alot of times in our society, we just go through the motions to get things over with. Montag doesn't really love Mildred, but getting married is just what you do.
ReplyDeleteDaniel: What is unity?
ReplyDeleteTo answer Mrs.Moritz's question-Yes. I was just thinking about that. If we are really learning for the purpose of learning, why do we have grades, tests, etc? Most students I know learn the information for just long enough to use it, then it disappears.
ReplyDeleteMoritz, I think that a lot of the time we learn facts that don't bennifit us any. We go home and memorize facts so we can get good grades, but really that's not helping most kids gain real knowledge.
ReplyDeleteI contemplated the meaning of the smell of kerosene as well. I believe that the meaning of the smell getting to him is to show a guilt since the old lady died.
ReplyDeleteI think that the change in smell from "perfume" to making him vomit showed that his heart changed and he realized that he really didn't like his job and realized that when he was trying to help the community he wasn't.
ReplyDelete@griffin--What???
ReplyDeleteHappieness depends on the person. For soem happiness is different than others. Also. contentment is much differant that happieness
ReplyDeleteAll men are created equal, but don't have to be treated equal. The society can claim equality, becuase all men are created equal.
ReplyDeleteLike they said in the inner circle i think he realizes he isnt just burning books hes burning sombodies life.
ReplyDeletehe liked change.... but what happened to that liking? once he met clarisse he changed alot... like kelsey said did his point of view changed on bieng a firefighter?
ReplyDeleteIs it Clarrisse's death that makes him want to take out the books or was it Clarrise's life?
ReplyDeleteI believe that at this point of the story (with Clarrises death) Guy starts to think more and more about his emotions and how he interacts with Mildred.
ReplyDeleteKelsie had an intersting idea that people can feel smart but they really arn't... so in school we learn many facts, and some deeper thought happens but...do you feel smarter knowing the meaning of life (deeper thought) or 17 causes of World War 1(fact)?
ReplyDeleteI think getting run over by a car is an easy out for the government to get rid of her
ReplyDeleteI think that all men are created equal but if someone is smarter than another and can find new discoveries, society needs to acknowledge that and not make the smart one dumber than the other.
ReplyDeletedaniel... i think it was the way she made him realize these different things
ReplyDeleteHaley: I dont think she is dead because since the government was dealing with it she may be locked up somewhere because someone found out she had books... and being questioned... Just a thought
ReplyDeleteNot to be mean, but for the story's plotline, i think it is better off that Clarisse is out of the picture. Now Montag can take control and he has to do it alone. He doesn't have Clarisse to lean on, he has to be his own person...make the change himself.
ReplyDeleteIs there really a government? It seems that this society doesnt need any governing force other than fire fighters.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Ms. Moritz's question, I think that a lot of the time all that is required is that you memmorize is the facts, and this is why people lose their love for learning and see it as a chore. If you can stick to this depth, the work does not seem pointless, but the problem is that the depth is no longeer required to get by, and so many students lose their love of learning when it is no longer an expectation to enjoy what they are learning, solely to get a good grade so that they can move on. Learning is more than memmorizing words, but you are not required to learn - only memmorize.
ReplyDeleteI didn't understand that part at all, do they kill each other for fun?
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarisse's death was not an accident because her and her family were becoming more and more suspisous to the government and it was just easier for the government to say it was an accident rather than them trying to get rid of her.
ReplyDeleteI agree with mikaela Clarrise was the start of his transformation but he has to do t he rest himself
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mrs. Moritz that someone really want to get to someone or something they could find a way to do it and make it look like an accident.
ReplyDelete@Mikaela--I agree with you. Bradbury brought her in to serve the purpose of getting Montag thinking. Sadly, then, she wasn't imporant.
ReplyDeleteI think that there is a government because I think that the firefighters would have to get the permission to burn from someone unless they are the government.
ReplyDeleteI think that some outside force must have been the cause of her death. I dont however believe that it is the government that commited the murder ( if it was murder) because the government doesn seem to be prominant in the story but careless teenagers have been mentioned.
ReplyDeleteMegan said something about people killing each other, why is this acceptable? It doesn't seem like anyone is trying to change that fact, so why is it okay?
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting how Guy reacts to Clarisses dealth, he wants to brush it off his shoulder and gets very adgictated when Mildered brings her up... is he trying not to except the fact of her leaving/dealth or does he know other wise of how she died (maybe not an accident)?
ReplyDeletethe firemen are like the ss to me they just enforce the laws so they are the law
ReplyDeleteA "car accident" is an easy cover-up for the death of someone they have been unhappy with for a long time.
ReplyDeleteIt does make it sound like the government does control much more land than they portray. The people that seem in charge sound like the fireman
ReplyDeleteBradburry also predicted another thing correctly: The goverment has too much power!
ReplyDeleteI think that the censorship of books started with the people because they sort of censored it themselves by forcing the government to eliminate offensive books.
ReplyDeleteI agree with abiie is it that common that people are killed? or is it just played down to seem ok?
ReplyDeleteDidn't Beaty say that the newpapers and companies like that started shortening books? Wasn't that the start of censorship?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mikaela that once Clarrise's usefulness in the plot is used up then she is eliminated for the sake of simplicity.
ReplyDeleteGarrett good point the government has barely been mentioned, so how is it obvious that they were the cause of her dealth? Reckless teenager is as likely as government.
ReplyDeleteGriffin, you said that the firefighers were law-inforcers, I think that the firefighters are the closest thing to government that we know about.
ReplyDeleteNo one is given more than one side of an issue, and therefore they never argue. But who decides what side of the story people get?
ReplyDeleteI think it is common that people are killed because it talks about how the kids in their society are very reckless and don't even think about if what they are doing is right.
ReplyDeleteDaneil I don't think it was nessasarly censorship, it is just conforming to whta the people wanted.
ReplyDeleteAre firemen abusing their power when they read the books?
ReplyDeleteTo add to what i just said, doesnt that mean that neither the government or the people started the censorship?
ReplyDeleteWhy does censoring books affect their society so much? If our society censored books, there would still be ways of gaining knowledge and creating ideas.
ReplyDeleteI dont understand how the society is functioning if things are eliminated that are offensive. Isnt everything offensive to someone????
ReplyDeleteI dont think the shortenig was the start of the censorship it was just to keep up with the speed of life
ReplyDeleteFireman are abusing thier power because they are the ones reading what is supposed to be burned by them...
ReplyDeleteWe seem to be censoring ourselves. Like Beatty says, we shorten everything, need instant gratification, etc. This just allows real censorship to occur more frequently, and easier.
ReplyDeleteI think that the owners of the books would be irritated if the people that are burning and outlawing books are reading the books that were theres.
ReplyDeleteWhy would a fireman want to read a book that could possibly change him if he loves his job of burinig them?
ReplyDeletewhen the firefighters read the books the start to learn more than the people do and this isnt fair because then they may change their decision about burning books. have they all read a book AT some time or another?
ReplyDeleteJack: If they shorted the books, they choosef that to take out! Is that not censorship?
ReplyDeletei dont think the fireman are abusing their power the just are hipocritical
ReplyDeleteConnection:
ReplyDeleteIf Clarisse's death was on purpose, it could be similar to the many deaths in Macbeth. Someone was hired to kill someone else to make their life eaiser. Macbeth hired people to kill King Duncan to make the pathway to the thorne simple and clear. In Fahrenheit 451, someone may have killed Clarisse on purpose to make it easier to enforce NO BOOKS! Clarisse may have begun to rub off on people,and they may realize the situation and take action. I think it is really logical that Clarisse was killed purposeful, because she had a good, strong way of makeing people (such as Montag) realize the problems in a society and want to make a change. I don't think that the government could control everone (no matter the size of government or city) if they all decided to be against them...and make a change.
DANEIL its just con forming to what teh public wanted. They didnt want to read 500 pages but they wanted to read the book!!
ReplyDeleteTo Rebecca's post I think that there is some form of government outside of the firefighters because I think that there would be some sort of an uprising if the firefighters just made the rules and decided that they'd burn the books
ReplyDeleteI think that the fireman are aloud to read because they cant get to the substance of the book in only 24 hours.
ReplyDeleteMoritz, I think they are abusing their power by reading the books. They are the ones going out and burning homes and books, it's very hypocritical of them to be reading what they're trying to get rid of.
ReplyDeletewhat is the city of ember
ReplyDelete@Jack, but like Dan said, that is censorship, isn't it though?...
ReplyDeleteI do think that there is some sort of underground group that gives the books and is trying to reestablish what they know has been in the past.
ReplyDeleteThe firemen's curiosity is sparked by their proximity to books, and that this is why books are acceptable for them and not others. the point is to get rid of curiosity.
ReplyDeleteJack: I agree that they are conforming to what the people want, but the newpapers are desiding what to take out that still is censorship on the media's part.
ReplyDeleteI think that Beatty saying that they are allowed to read is a sort of trap for the firemen
ReplyDeletesome rules are made to be broken
ReplyDeleteDo you think that there could be some long lasting "war" that the firemen have been waging to eradicate the books and the people that have them?
ReplyDeleteBeatty did seem fairly clam about the whole situation. (might he be part of the supposed underground society or is he just used to the whole thing)
ReplyDeleteI think the reason that teenagers dont read the books is because they didn't grow up with them so they don't know the importance of them
ReplyDeletehe had 24 hours to get rid of the book? how should he read that fast or was that the point?
ReplyDeleteDANEIL: WRONG! They dicide what to take out but what they take out is the parts the public doesnt want to read!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rebecca. They are given special privileges due to the nature of their job. They constantly work with books and must be naturally curious.
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz -
ReplyDeleteI don't think the fireman realzie the power they have...or how strongly they are enforcing the no books law. I think that the curiosity in a younger fireman such as Montag is a more powerful thought than just the knowledge of a job.
Jack: who is to say what the public doesnt want to read?
ReplyDeleteGarrett, you said that you think there is an underground circulation of books, and I agree. How else would people be getting books and have the ability to read them? Also, in a world of no books, how do people still know how to read? Is reading and writing still taught to people?
ReplyDeleteMaybe the fireman are just to guilty about the steeling of a book to get anything out of the book.
ReplyDeleteFiremen are given a grace period with "accidentally" taken books and on top of that they are not given a fair punishment. Firemen should have no special treatment they are citizens and deserve to be treated the same. The old women I do not think would be angry because of the fact that the fireman's curiosity could lead to more and more happening dealing with books it has to start with someone in power (firemen). She died for her cause thats what she wanted to do and if her cause was that important to her, anyone driven to take a book and read is a-oaky with her even with out punishment because those people can make things happen.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that there can be a war in the traditional sense of the word, the firemen just see it as restoring order.
ReplyDeleteDANIEKL: the public says, with thier reviews and complaints.
ReplyDeleteTo Alyssa: I think that the point of only giving them 24 ours is to make them rush through it or not finish it because if they don't understand the plot they may see it how Beatty is trying to make them see books as.
ReplyDeleteBeatty knew about the history of firemen and books because when he was a firefighter earlier he did take books from the houses they burned, read them, and then burned them.
ReplyDeletewhy should you hate? its a strong word!!
ReplyDeleteDoes our society shun people who are different?
ReplyDeleteAlyssa, the point of only having 24 hours to keep a book was that they wouldn't be able to read the whole book, only parts of it.
ReplyDeleteSo would montag ever have gotten the chance to read these books? and would he have been changed in the same way?
ReplyDeletei agree with garrett and abby theres always a black market for a wanted item
ReplyDeleteIn addition to my last comment -
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean that they didn't realize their job (obviously they were enforcing no books, because they were burning houses), but I think the firemen may just do their job...just like every other person. I don't think that they are constantly questioning their part in society and how it is effecting every indicidual.
How did Montag get the books?
ReplyDeleteDidn't they have 24 or 48 hours? So if they didnt finish it in 24 they had more time?
ReplyDeleteI think it does Daniel because people who are "dumb" or "ugly" are generally the people that someone sees and automatically decides that they don't want to be around them.
ReplyDeleteI think that Beatty is just so veteraned that he has seen this all before!!
ReplyDeleteif montag reads these books would he change into one of the people he has burned, would mildred be the same if she read it?
ReplyDeletei think he collected them from his fire missions over his time as a fireman as a trophy of sorts
ReplyDeleteI agree with Abbie that the 24 hour grace period for the fireman is short enough that they can't get too much out of the book.
ReplyDeleteKnowledge is power the more educated you are the more intune you are with what is going... which may make you question athority and the way of doing things, keeping the people uneducated about important issues reduces the chances of them rebelling agains the type of society they have and the authority that controls them.
ReplyDeleteI think that we do, I mean think about how we, as a culture place empahsis on being attractive and "cool", and make being smart and unahthletic bad. And that spreads to schools and those who are not "cool" are picked on and shunned
ReplyDeleteHow do we decied GOOD or BAD characters? Is it towards what we think or how they are in the story? How...how?
ReplyDeleteDaniel: I do think that our society shuns people who are different. Even if you just look around you can tell that there is a want to belong, and that is what their society is - the culmination of all that want to belong. Now they are left with the few people that want to be different that they must supress so that the rest can belong.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that mabye beatty is putting on a face and he is possibly like montag?
ReplyDeleteSo if Mildred really does read these books with Montag, is she going to get in trouble for that, or is it justified because her husband is a firefighter?
ReplyDeleteI think Beatty is playing a game with montag, trying to make him feel like he doesnt really know anything. Beatty is trying to get Montag to be the "regular" fireman, like Clarrise told Montag about. Montag is different and has a purpose and Beatty is trying to destroy it.
ReplyDeleteI dont really think that Beatty is being a friend to Montag but rather warning him of bad things that will ensue the reading of books because he knows that Montag wont listen.
ReplyDeleteGood point Nicole. An informed public has the ability to create change, which is not what whoever is in charge wants.
ReplyDeleteTo Mikaela: I think generally we decide if a character is "good" or "bad" after the first impression we see of them.
ReplyDeleteWhat happens if a person, like Montag, was found with books? He is sorta important to running society...would they punish him?
ReplyDeleteWill people find out about his stash?
Obviously Beatty rules by fear. Could he possibly go home at night, crack open a cold beer, and sit down and READ? He does seem untouchable.
ReplyDeleteI dont know if this is relevant but what if Beatty killed Clarrise to keep Montag out of danger.
ReplyDeleteHow many members of the society actually think it's perfect?
ReplyDeleteMikaela: I think that the author of a book writes their characters in a certain way, and a lot of the time they see them as good or bad, but they do give their characters depth that allows readers to see the characters in a different way based on their own experience.
ReplyDeletehe might and that might be where his superior attitude comes from
ReplyDeletei believe he could but he doesnt feel safe doing that
ReplyDeleteIDEA!!!:
ReplyDeleteBEATTY WOULD BE A GREAT CHARACTER TO HELP MONTAG MAKE A CHANGE!!!! He is a big, powerful figure in society.
I think he may or if not he is not opposed to books as much as he says he is, i think he knows montag ahs books and will gonna let him.
ReplyDeleteI think that he does have that authority and there probably wouldn't be a way for the others to find out. Maybe Beatty really believes what he says about how books are really nonsense.
ReplyDeleteBeatty to me seems like a captain that is also a father figure, and just warning Montag about what would happen to him if he got involved in the illegal book viewing, by telling him the history about the society with books but in a way that does not to shun or admire it just in the middle, knowing who Montage is and what he will take away from the story he told is to be carfull by keeping books at an arms length and maybe slowly bring them closer.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Griffin, maybe he knows he's not going to get caught with books so he reads, which fuels his attitude toward everyone else.
ReplyDeleteI think it is a strong possibility that Beatty reads. He is clearly more educated in history than others. He knew who Master Ridley was and claimed to be "full of bits and pieces". Where else could he pick up these tidbits?
ReplyDelete@ Corey -
ReplyDeleteBut how do you decide good/bad by first impression?
How the look? What they do? What they say?
Did montag ever know her?
ReplyDeleteIs Beaty the one who is setting the hound on Montag?
ReplyDeleteI dont think that Guy really puts Mildred as his priority of thought at this point. I think that he could care less about Mildred.
ReplyDeletei dont know if he ever knew her i think he thought he did when he didnt
ReplyDeletete first impression can be voice, look, clothes, anything
ReplyDeleteBeatty does rule with fear in a sense, but he also uses the want they all have to belong in society to keep control.
ReplyDeleteHe also has a very intese hatred of books, but he must also care about them deep down, and see the love people have in books, and this is the source of his hatred.
Daniel, that's a good question. Maybe Beaty is setting the hound against Montag so he won't get caught himself.
ReplyDeleteDeath is viewed as OK.
ReplyDeleteThey don't care as much about each death, as we do today...Do you think our society will come to that? I hope not :(
I think that Montag is crying because he is very overwelmed at the fact that he doesn't fully love his wife and he has been just wearing a mask for so long that when it is taken off he realizes that he actually was wearing a mask.
ReplyDeleteThis society looks upon people and books as expendable. People in-People out.
ReplyDeleteMontag talked about how burning books is more than just burning pages but more like burning somebody and their ideas.
ReplyDeleteOk then why would beatty do do that, set the hound on montag?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Zach.
ReplyDeleteBeatty does know more than everyone. How?
its also the directors point of view
ReplyDeleteJack, I think he set the dog agianst Montag so that the dog won't go after him for reading books, which is why Beaty is wanting Montag to read....
ReplyDeleteBurning People = Burning Books, well Montag did say that he felt bad burning book that people spent their life on and poured their hearts out in, behind books are people, so they are the same thing Burning Books is essentially burning someones thoughts as well as who they are so burning people happens before they die when their books are burning their purpose for living is nothing.
ReplyDeleteJack - Why would he do that?
ReplyDeleteI don't know...maybe I am insensitive, but I really don't see a need for a big ceremony and a place to lay my deceased body. After I am dead, I don't really care...BUT, I do see the need for people who are left living to have this ceremonial conclusion. So, is the book really so wrong in that aspect?
ReplyDeletei agree with Mrs. Moritz its a lot more cot effective the way they do it
ReplyDeleteI kind of agree with moritz what if the government or whatever just doesnt want people to dwell on the deceased life's?
ReplyDeletei meant cost effective
ReplyDeleteThats what i asked, but i think i agree with abbie and daniel he is probably trying to keep that knoledge to himself, so he feels different in a society when people are the same.
ReplyDeletei agree with moritz and griffin, it does make sense
ReplyDeleteI feel like it's important to have a funeral for someone who has passed, it's kind of a sign of respect for that person and love, even though they're not going to know.
ReplyDeleteHey if Beatty set the hound on Guy then did he know about the stash behind the ventilator grill
ReplyDelete@ Mrs. Moritz -
ReplyDeleteI think it's ok what they do with the bodies, but I do agree that it our society the still living people want a last goodbye. But in this society...other people aren't as affected by one's death. So they burn them, and don't feel the need for a ceremony.
They don't really care about anything, hence their lack of emotion surrunding death and books. They want to belong, and have sacrificed everything for this. Yet, because of this there is nt really anything to belong to.
ReplyDeleteAbbie - But those people don't really care like people in our society do about the deceased.
ReplyDeletethe lack of emotion reminds me of spock only logic
ReplyDeleteMontag he is dragging his wife into this because he doesn't want to be turned in by her or he wants to start over their relationship where they are on the same page?
ReplyDeleteI think that the fourth wall would just complete her world and she would "interact" with them and feel apart of them.
ReplyDeleteIf the society has been this way for a long time than doesnt there have to be someone making more books or they would all be gone.
ReplyDeleteare the tvs like a play and speak in turn or..?
ReplyDeleteI think that fuenral is unessasary unless the person asked for it. Its a big deal, and many just want people they love to pay thier respects not a group of relations you may or may not have loved or even talked to.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Maria that he had to get her involved because she had felt the figure of the book and he needed her to go along with him or else it was probable that she would tell on him because their relationship isn't very strong.
ReplyDeleteMikaela, I know that they don't care in their society, but I think that is a symbol for how they feel for everyone else, they've lost the respect we have, and are slowly losing, for people
ReplyDeleteI think funerals are way to sad. Those types of funerals I could deal without. If a funeral is celibrating a life and show the good things thatthe person did, I think it can be a very good thing for the people who were close to the deceased. So, i think the funerals are good but not for the deceased...
ReplyDeleteThere has to be children...the society has to go on after they die...afterall death isn't as big of a thing.
ReplyDeleteGriffin: I disagree with your spock reference. It isn't that he has no feeling, just that he supresses his feelings, and this is just what the people in this society have done.
ReplyDeleteDo most couples have kids?
ReplyDeleteKara, Thats a good point. if mildred wanted a family, why don't they have kids?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jack because people's lives aren't valued that much anyways so what's the use of having a funeral when cares.
ReplyDeleteIf they are capable of having children then why havent they do they really have any emotion for eachother
ReplyDeleteThe 3 walls why didn't the author already have 4 walls of t.v's? Because the 4th would completely close her in from redemption into connecting with her husband and that she would not be able to convert to read the books with Montag because she would be completely surrounded by media telling her to be an anit-book person.
ReplyDeletei think graces question was good sometimes you dont want to know the answers to a question
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarisse was happy but deep down she knew she was in trouble and was going to get punished sometime
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarrise wasnt ever going to be happy unless she could spread her ideas to everyone.
ReplyDeleteThat is true Garret because usually having children is a sign that a couple has emotions for each other and they decide that they want to care for someone with each other
ReplyDeleteWhoa Cori thats not what i meant, life matters but i only want people mounring me to whom MY life mattered.
ReplyDeleteIs our society that different from Mildred? Don't a lot of people sit in front of a tv all day or play COD or whatever form of entertainment they choose.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Montag was really overwhelmed (like said in the inner circle),he was reminded, and his eyes were opened.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Mildred is afraid of children..in the sense of responsibility and a connection to Montage.
ReplyDeleteYou are driving me crazy. Can everyone please use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation.
ReplyDeleteI think that Clarisse was only truly happy when she had someone to share her feelings with.
ReplyDeletei dont think mildred is the motherly type she'd probably get sued for neglect because she would forget she had kids
ReplyDeleteI agree with Daniel. Our society is not that different than Guy's. Our's may not be as extreme, but we still do many similar things.
ReplyDelete