Big Brother does seem a little hoaky to me. His existence just seems to be a series of picture plastered everywhere and power that pulses through society but not really a living breathing person.
I think that Big Brother is a real person. He seems to talks about him as though he is a ruler. I think that the "Big Brother" part refers to something that we look up to. It is kind of like how some of us look up to our older siblings. I think it might have something to that effect.
Fareheint 451 is similar to the book, but like what Dan said, I think that they are n ot taking away the abiity to learn (ex: Syme) but rather are taking away the want to learn.
I think that his diary is because he can't make a change like Montag could, even though he is having the same feelings. The diary provides a place for him to put down how he feels.
@Kelsie, I think that there is a possibilty that Big Brother could be a public face. Big Brother definitely represents government in this story. If Big Brother would happen to be a face, then I think it might represent the government's fakeness, which was seen a lot in the 1940's and 50's.
@Kelsie Why, if this guy is power hungry, would he hid his identity? It would be like pretending Hitler wasn't real, like he was just a pretend person for the man behind the curtain, but that's not true.
@Holly: Sometimes too much knowledgde can be bad. Sometimes the knowledge that you know could be something that you really didn't want to know or something that could flat out just get you in trouble.
@sydney: That's true. But... it could be like the Wizard of Oz. The wizard himself hid so people would not look down on him when they realized he was not the god-like "wizard of oz" as he portrayed himself. Maybe "big brother" is someone who is nervous to show his true identity.
@Michaela, Maybe you're right, Big Brother is real because Goldstien would probably know if BB wasn't real and wouldn't go against him if he knew he wasn't
Grace makes a really good point that the diary to Winston is like Clarisse was to Montage (in Fahrenheit 451) but they are also different because the diary is a way to unload Winston's thoughts so that he will not be given away by his emotions betraying him when expressed out in the open but Clarisse to Montage was a awkening call not really the diary a way to surprese their thoughtcrime. Big picture: Montage was ignorant and Clarisse changed that in him to were he thirsted for knowledge, but Winston is over knowledgable therefor the diary is to hide it form the "watcher", for him to appear ignorant
@Garrett: If there was a support group for Goldstein, then i'm sure everyone in it would be/already have been vaporized. Its impossible to hide things from this sort of government.
@Rebecca, That's a good point, but they have to have someone be the government, why would they try to hide their identity?? They are altering what Big Brother says so that he is right, so that he is predicting things.
@Garrett I think that Wilson is currently curious about Goldstein and his support group and since he has already challenged the government with his thinking and diary and is aware of the consequences, he will join.
@ Michaela: I agree with your reference to the WIzard of Oz. I think that if people realized how weak Big Brother might be, then people would decide to break free from his rulings and do their own thing. Big Brother sort of seems like a dictators, and dictators are only out for their own self-interests. If people went away from Big Brother, that would certainly not be what Big Brother wants, so I think that the possibility of him acting bigger than he is could be a possibility.
@Rebecca, I don't necessarily think that BB needs to be real. He will be the face of the government either way. This might sounds weird but what if Big Brother is like The Wizard Of Oz. The face of him is the face of the wizard; all powerful and mighty, but just a regular man in actuality.
@Rebecca I don't think that Big Brother has to be real. I think Big Brother is just a mechanism made up by the government in order to strike fear into its citizens. If they always feel like they are being watched, they will not do anything against the governments rules. The idea of Big Brother is the governments best way to organize its citizens.
@ Emma - I agree with you. Whether he is real or not, people aren't going to test him. It is a smart (but slightly cruel and privacy invading) way of controlling thier citizens.
@emily: Yes, what I mean! Hes too ashamed to come out, for some reason. But what would the reason be...? Could he be some "low-life" like Syme or another begger? A child??
@Mikaela: I don't necessarily believe that people would think Big Brother is weak, unless they kenw something about him. They have made it clear in this society that everyone is scared of Big Brother. However, information is powerful, and if people get a hold of it, they might know something that nobody else knows. For example, if Big Brother turns out to be weak and somebody finds out about it, then they would think that Big Brother is weak.
I think that the ministry of love is secret because there is somthing inside that the general public isn't supposed to know about because what is inside might destroy the government if it gets out.
@Rebecca, I think he chooses to write the diary because he hopes that someone might understand it and the legacy of the oldspeak will live on and memories will last
The diary is just Winstons therapy. Like Nicole said, he uses it as a way to avoid showing his true thoughts in public. It is a comforting thing for him to write his guilts and struggles down in a book.
Some of these books seem odd to me. If I was faced with this situation, I would try to break out. But possibly, they rule on total fear, not only vaporizing. Possibly we could learn something new as we go on, and how this totalarian rule works...
@ Michaela: I am pretty sure that this isn't a child. However, I can imagine that Big Brother was just the average adult who had good strategy and somehow gained power.
@ Rebecca - I think he is writing the diary because he knows he can't change much with the powerful government. Unlike Montag, he is internalizing his anggry or hatred for his society...instead of making a change. The diary is a place for him to write his feelings...and it be as private as private gets in this society.
I agree with Zach. I think that Winston's diary is just a way for him to get his feelings and ideas out about their government. Also, Winston could be hoping that in the future, if things became better, that someone might find it and it would help that society better understand what was happening at this time.
@Emily: Just a guess. But maybe he is a "Big Brother" and there isn't anyone hiding behind the curtain. If there is, they have to be hiding for something.
Why was Winston convinced that he and Syme and others were guaranteed to be vaporized in a matter of years? What about them is threatening to the government?
@ Rebecca: Everybody at one point in their life has wanted to rebel. I think that Winston's diary might be involved with the urge to rebel. Also, I think that his diary might be him questioning if this is really right. His diary proves that Winston thinks for himself.
I feel like the gin makes them lazy with a don't-care attitude. Why would he leave the book open when the though poliece could be the ones who were banging on his door? Especially when the book said "Down with Big brother" many, many times? The gin is like a drug to keep you out of histerics.
@Rebecca I think that Winston just needs an outlet to express how he feels. He could also be writing in the diary for future generations, hoping that in some way his diary can cause change.
@Holly, they work for the gov. they know secrets that they would not be allowed to keep if they got fired or had to retire, or are they ever allowed to stop working for they gov
@Michaela: It would make sense that Winston drank the vicotry gin just to stick with the status quot, if he didn't his peculiar behavior would be seen as a reason for you to be prosecuted and vaporized or just disappear from the face of the earth. Just like how Winston always puts on a facade when it is expected of him to act a certain way, so he does not get ratted out, the gin is the same concept. Or maybe it just eases his pain from his aching body/ thoughts or he is so routine with drinking the victory gin it is hard to get out of the habit.
Does Winston have thoughts of his own, or are people's thoughts shaped by the new governtment?If he doesn't, how long can he hld on to his own thoughts?
Kind of like Nicole said, I think that Winston might be doubting or worrying about his thoughts. Sometimes when people have thoughts that go off the status quo, they tend to think that they need to get back on track. Perhaps this was Winston's way of trying to get back on track.
@Holly The government sees any imperfiction, such as a twich, as asign for revolt. Syme is too knowledgeable and speaks his mind, which makes him a threat. Whereas Wilson actually does have thoughts and expressions that relate to revolt.
I think that Winston hasa his own thoughts. He says that his mind isn't fully under control. In a way the government controls the thoughts of the people, but the people also have to play their part by using doublethink to suppress their own thoughts.
@Kelsie- I think that the government could have possibly made up Big Brother in order to create an idea that they have a strong, powerful leader. I don't think Big Brother necessarily has to be real in order to govern or rule the people.
@Rebecca The government does not control their thoughts because then Winston would not think about the real past and a society that is different. On the other hand, the government uses fear to instill that if they did have improper thoughts they would be vaporized.
@ Mikaela: I think that they are scared of big brother, but on the other hand, having somebody ruling over might be a comforting idea. If everyone were running around wild, then that would be considered scary to many people. I think that the idea of having somebody who is trying to keep order that might be a little scary is more preferable then everyone running around like maniacs. However, that's not to say that they don't want a different ruler.
@ Michaela - I think he forgot...and it would have taken too long for him to go to his desk...close the book, put it away...and run back to the door. If the thoughtpolice were really at the door, then they would become suspicious if it took him sorta long to get to the door. I also think that Winston may have been thinking that if it were the ThougtPolice, he was bound to get caught eventually...why no now.
Are the people of Oceania afraid of what life would be without BB, possible choas(people used to being controled and suddenly they have no one telling them what to do(huge jump there)) rather than with BB?
@ Rebecca - I think it DEFINTLEY is wrong to think against the government. If they were to let you think against them, if too many people began to think that way...the government could be overthrown.
@ Rebecca: The government probably views it as wrong, because you are going against their values, but not everybody would. Some people think that questioning the current state of things is a great idea.For example, in the Scopes Monkey Trial, John T. Scopes questioned if the teachings were right, even though the government was adament that it wasn't okay to teach evolution. Many people thought that John Scopes's questioning the law as good and others didn't. I think that it just depends who you are and what your views are.
@Nicole-I think that the people of Oceania would be afraid in life without Big Brother. I think that the citizens would kinda be lost and they wouldn't know how to live their lives. Without BB, no one would be telling them how to behave.
@Nicole-I think that BB is comforting to the people. Their lives are so easy. They can just move through it, completely ignorant of what is going on around them. Life without BB would be harder, there would be choice and variations. this scares them.
@ Zach: Do you think that BB will always make their lives easier or eventually do you think that he will do something dangerous in his rulings that might cause a challenge for the people?
@Nicole I believe that at this point, life seems impossible without big brother and that the government is seen as right and just too many people. Although the people are scared of BB, there more scared of losing their way of life.
@Rebecca- I think that in our society it is wrong to break the laws, but not necessarily to think against the government. Some groups of people throughtout history have thought badly of the government, and although they may have punishments for their actions, they don't have punishments for their thoughts.
@ Michaela - I was just wondering why he would be like Mildred? What did Mildred do, that you think Winston will do? Montag is the one that made the change in F451.
@Zach: People crave some sort of control one way or another just because of the security of knowing someone is watching out for you in a certain sense (all the time hoping the person telling you what to do has your best interest in mine), I think control is necessary up to a point and Oceania is way passed that point.
@Rebecca-Their production is dropping, people are dying, and their buildings are falling apart around them. There would probably be a point where they bottom out and then begin a new era, but they would be vulnerable during that low period.
It's important for the younger generation to want to become spies...otherwise when the next generation came along...the governemtnt with the Spies would wear out.
If BB went away they would have to get a new leader but you cant compete with the snuggies(BB) freedom the new leader would be like a normal blanket no hands
@ Mikaela: I think that some people in the younger generation will want to be spies. There are always those people who are immersed in the government no matter what the government stands for. Plus, this government seems like a government that would force people to become spies anyway or else there would be severe punishment.
@ Emily - I don't know about everyone else, but we do know that those little kids want to be spies. I think the government likes that the younger generation wants to carryout the same duties.
@Megan:disrupting the way of life can be dangerous especially when people where ment to think that BB is doing them more good then harm when they constantly change the past to put them in the lime light and seem all knowing.So why shoot BB down when it appears they are improving the way of life? That would be the people of Oceania's rebuttle.
@ Rebecca - I do too. I think that he will just write in his diary for now, and then rebel. As, the book wouldn't have much of a plot if he just keeps writing this rebellious stuff down. I don't know about you, but I would loose interest in the book if Winston doesn't do anything.
I think that Big Brother is a real person. However, I think it could be possible that Big Brother’s face is just the face of a random, powerful and threatening man. Maybe Big Brother’s words and actions are the words and actions of certain Party members, or even one. Maybe if Big Brother is an actual person, he isn’t really what he is made up to be. Maybe he has no idea what he is doing. Maybe he is like the Wizard of Oz.
Zach – what will Syme do to make the government realise that he needs to be vaporized? He is really smart, and Winston thinks he is too smart… how does this make sense?
I agree that more information makes better decisions, but just like in Fahrenheit, someone will disagree and someone will be offended and something bad will happen.
Michaela – Why wouldn’t they want the ability to learn? Then again, if they eliminate the want to learn, they will ultimately eliminate the ability. But why?
I agree with Mikaela in that Montag had a larger sense of space to feel what he felt. However, Winston is not so lucky, because of the telescreens.
I also agree that how no one really appears to see or interact with BB suggests fear. And also – if he did make these speeches, where? When? Who saw them? Who can verify? Perhaps there is an actor acting as BB in revised videos of speeches, if there are any. I think the government just wants everyone to agree with them. Everyone think the same way.
I think Goldstein is very real. Something about him, in the Two Minutes Hate, just gives the impression that he is actual. The visuals of the army, and the reports of what he has done. Goldstein’s society obviously does not have the society BB has, with the telescreens and revising of everything to make sure he is always correct. And with no one to revise Goldstein’s actions, they must be real.
I see that in Fahrenheit and in 1984 that large parts of the novels have to do with the written word – documents – and erasing history. In Fahrenheit it is actual books, in 1984 it is Winston’s diary. I get the feeling of the struggle of survival of these objects.
But why erase history? And how, really, do they do so?
And since the government is revising everything to make what BB say would happen actually happen, why don’t any people in the society that are not members of the Party ever wonder why it works out so perfectly? Maybe the threat, maybe the day to day life, maybe the “unconciious” lifestyle Winston describes everyone to have. But what is the point of the Party?
Also, totalitarianism in history always has a leader – a leader that is seen and that interacts. It’s different with BB.
I think that Griffin brings up a good point, though. What if the government is actually making the Two Minute Hates? What if it is one of the sick, twisted ways they manipulate society? Questionable.
And why, really, does Winston want “down with BB”?
Yes – what is with the “victory” stuff? I’m confused.
I agree with Michaela – it seems absolutely impossible to hide things in this kind of
government.
And if everything is being revised so that BB is right – everything will not be up to date. Saying things just happened, that actually happened last year. Is that how time is lost?
Becca – I think Winston is writing the diary because he wants to remember most things, but in a way at the same time wants to forget the things that he doesn’t want to remember… So they’re not bouncing around in his head, like the story with the prostitute. Perhaps to just make himself realise what the government is repressing everyone of. To know what kind of world he lives in.
Mikaela – no one will test BB… what about Winston? Will he do something?
I also was wondering about the Ministry of Love. Probably not what we think of as love.
If the diary is Winston’s therapy, and it is comforting for him to right his frustrations down, why has he only started writing now? Why not a while ago?
Becca brings up a good point – maybe part of the reason why Winston is writing the diary is to feel that he is doing something he shouldn’t be. To know he is doing something he shouldn’t be. I think Winston was talking about rebellion… maybe somewhere around the story of the prostitute? He also mentioned that he tried to love his wife and touch his wife, Katharine, but she wouldn’t let him. That is rebellion against society. How did the government not see that he was physically attracted to her? Was this possibly an issue that lead to the creation of the telescreen? Were there telescreens when Winston was with Katharine?
My take on the gin is similar to Mikaela’s – I think Winston may drink it to escape and get away from the pain he feels with the world he lives in. But if this were true, why would the government supply the gin?
I was also wondering that, Holly – why are he and Syme threatening to the government, but the others aren’t? Perhaps he believes there is a possibility of realization of what is wrong, whereas people like Parsons and the man who quacks like a duck just… quack. Again, the unconscious feeling and thinking and belief that what is is what should be. This concept relates to Fahrenheit, Pedestrian, and HB as well.
Yes, Mikaela – Syme may be too knowledgeable… but so far, his knowledge is used for the benefit of BB and society and government. And it doesn’t seem that the government will always need such people – going back to what Zach said earlier. They need people to do the work. Most Party members are probably not extremely intelligent. And if Syme were to realise what is wrong, what would lead him to that realization? Does the government know this about Syme and are planning to vaporize him when his Dictionary is done? My question is if this change in Syme happens – when will it happen, and why. What will Syme think is wrong.
I think Sydney brings up a really great point – the Party members know what BB said at his last speech, and they know what they change his words to be. They know things. They know how the government works. If anyone were to leave… they would probably have to vaporize them for fear of the truth being revealed and possible rebellion. Again, with the purpose of the telescreens. Fear is present in this society through the posters of BB and the telescreens. This is how the government keeps its citizens – and its employees – in line. I keep thinking, though, that there must be places where there are no telescreens.
I like Nicole’s idea of the gin – just keeping the status quo. Doing what you have to do.
I think it is obvious that Winston has his own thoughts. “DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER” is probably not what every citizen is writing in their secret diaries. Then again, we never know. But I believe it is Winston thinking for himself in this case. Why would Orwell choose to have the main character be Winston and to have the story be told through Winston’s eyes if everyone else in the story felt the same way?
I agree with Griffin – thinking they have a leader is all they need. Related to faith, in a way.
Emily – I think the “getting back on track with the status quo” concept you brought up is fantastic. We all feel wrong if we think a certain way sometimes, or if our opinion differs from that of someone else. We like to fit in. Does the gin help him feel like a part of society? And of course, one must realise that we are able, in our society today, to have differing opinions. Not in Winston’s.
I agree with Megan – Syme’s knowledge right now may be in favor of the government and Ingsoc(What is Ingsoc?), but it may change to a threat.
Becca – ultimately, isn’t BB and the pressure of society the same thing?
Zach – what is doublethink?
I agree with Garrett in wondering whether BB is real or not is even relevant.
The government is trying its best to control peoples’ thoughts. Fear, thought police, etc.
Emily – is there a balance in this society between fear of BB and trust in BB? Is that why it is working?
Becca – I think that thinking about breaking the law is wrong. The entire concept is backwards thinking, in truth. Thinking about doing something that you aren’t supposed to be doing – and in doing so, are breaking the law. Like Mikaela said – the government will not simply let people think differently than them. It’s out of the question.
I agree with Sydney in that Winston left the diary open to preserve its prettiness. Also – maybe to keep him, funnily enough, up-to-date on his personal beliefs of the system. The whole “keeping him on track with the status quo idea” – possibly to keep himself from going off track. Reminding him of what he thinks. In this society, memory is lost.
Zach – Yes, ignorant. Life is easy. Sounds like Fahrenheit, no?
Emily – remember that the government revises everything that BB says.
Yes Zach – But what is happening with all this warfare? And why can’t they live in this type of society forever?
Griffin – interesting bring up of the Snuggie. But is there wiggle room in this society?
All this talk of Winston possibly falling under the influence of BB… remember back to the Two Minutes Hate? He started out feeling anger towards BB. Then his anger altered toward Goldstein, like it is supposed to. He is doubting, and he is bouncing back and forth. “Keeping on track…”
Are the spies like the firemen in Fahrenheit? The people that seem to keep society working… the ones that are seen in action, doing their jobs?
I agree with Emma – Actions are not the same thing as thoughts. Thinking is not really doing, but it leads to doing.
I think in this whole comparison of Winston to Mildred and Winston to Montag that Winston is somewhere in the middle. Montag seems to be in full fledged rebellion against the government; Mildred seems to be in full fledged loyalty to the government. Winston seems to be moving back and forth. Both sides of his issue are powerful.
Michaela – there already is a level of chaos in our classroom. Is there a possibility of chaos even when the posters of BB are still hanging on the walls?
Sydney – is the question whether BB is comforting, or whether he feels comforting?
This whole Snuggie comparison may prove to be actually valid. Aren’t Snuggies sort of… wrong? The idea of a backwards robe? And doesn’t this society, under BB, appear sort of… wrong, as well? Why not just turn the robe around? This ultimately leads to the question about whether what is considered a “good type of government” can appeal to everyone, and everyone can have the opportunity to wear it the way they like? And even on the flip side of that – is Winston just wearing his robe a different way?
Sydney – was there a fall of the government in Fahrenheit?
Yes – the government can see practically everything, it seems, in Winston’s world. Fairly different than Montag’s. How will Winston be able to challenge the system when BB’s eyes are always watching him?
But how, Nic, is BB improving their way of life? I don’t understand.
Mikaela – we write things down in order to organize our thoughts and our lives, correct? So is it possible to think that Winston’s writing in his diary is his way of organizing all these crazy things that he is thinking?
Griffin – I agree with your comparison of “Fair is foul and foul is fair” to “War is peace.” I just don’t know exactly how. I’d like to talk about his more. Maybe that war may seem to be foul, but it will bring peace, which is fair?
Emily – if a leader wanted to do bad things – well, it would matter on what kind of government the leader lead. In a totalitarian society – sure! But in a democracy? I’d say not. This also relates to “Fair is foul and foul is fair.” Foul things may be done – but they may be done for the interest of the country (fair) or they may appear to be fair.
Yes, Sydney – just like in Fahrenheit, telling them what they know.
I agree with Becca – nothing really is real if you don’t believe it is. Belief creates reality. I think so.
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ReplyDeleteIs Big Brother a real person, or is he only fiction?
ReplyDeleteRebecca, I think he might've been real at one point but died but is still the public figure of the government.
ReplyDeleteOr, he's just some made up person to pose for the government.
@ Rebecca - I think he is realy....as he comes on the telescreen similar to Goldstien.
ReplyDeleteI think he's a real person, he made speeches.
ReplyDeleteI think he's real because he is making public announcements that are in the newspaper.
ReplyDeleteToo much knowledge can be bad for people
ReplyDeleteBig Brother does seem a little hoaky to me. His existence just seems to be a series of picture plastered everywhere and power that pulses through society but not really a living breathing person.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Big Brother is just a figure made by the government to display and reenforce what they want.
ReplyDeleteI think that Big brother is a real person but he also represents the whole government.
ReplyDeleteWill Syme be vaporized within the time of the book? Will we see what happens when someone is vaporitzed?
ReplyDeleteI think that Big Brother is a real person. He seems to talks about him as though he is a ruler. I think that the "Big Brother" part refers to something that we look up to. It is kind of like how some of us look up to our older siblings. I think it might have something to that effect.
ReplyDelete@mikaela Is Goldstien real?
ReplyDeleteI think that Big Brother is real because he is a public figure that make speeches and stuff.
ReplyDeleteSyme will stay alive just as long as the status quo stays in his favor. As soon as the government doesn't need him anymore, he will be vaporized.
ReplyDelete@Sydeny, what if the face of BB is just a front for the real person. They don't want the public to know their real identity.
ReplyDelete@ Griffin - How can too much knowledge be bad?
ReplyDeleteHow can too much knowledge be bad? Don't people make better decisions and so on when they're informed?
ReplyDeleteI think that Goldstein might be make up as a device to scare people to gain power. Intimidation is a great tool.
ReplyDeleteFareheint 451 is similar to the book, but like what Dan said, I think that they are n ot taking away the abiity to learn (ex: Syme) but rather are taking away the want to learn.
ReplyDelete*similar to 1984
ReplyDeleteI agree with Megan. I think that Big Brother is just an idea to make the citizens feel as if they are being controlled.
ReplyDeleteI think that his diary is because he can't make a change like Montag could, even though he is having the same feelings. The diary provides a place for him to put down how he feels.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie, I think that there is a possibilty that Big Brother could be a public face. Big Brother definitely represents government in this story. If Big Brother would happen to be a face, then I think it might represent the government's fakeness, which was seen a lot in the 1940's and 50's.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie I agree. not knowing if he is real, or what he really is creates mystery and fear.
ReplyDeleteI think Goldstein is real. If Big Brother is fake, then realize that Goldstein is fighting against an imaginary person.
ReplyDelete@ Rebecca - The people think he is.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie Why, if this guy is power hungry, would he hid his identity? It would be like pretending Hitler wasn't real, like he was just a pretend person for the man behind the curtain, but that's not true.
ReplyDelete@ Michaela - What if Goldstein is fake...??
ReplyDelete@Holly: Sometimes too much knowledgde can be bad. Sometimes the knowledge that you know could be something that you really didn't want to know or something that could flat out just get you in trouble.
ReplyDelete@Holly But can't too much knowledge be be bad if it's something that the government doesn't want you to know?
ReplyDelete@Sydney, touche!
ReplyDeleteIf big brother is not real then who is the man in the pictures?
ReplyDeleteDo you think Winston will do anything with his diary?
ReplyDelete@sydney -- Is anything in the paper fact, though, because we see Winston at work altering what is put in the papers to fit what actually happens.
ReplyDeleteHow much of their society has been fabricated like this? Does it make a difference?
I think that the hate is a tool for the government to scare the people of others power
ReplyDeleteIf there is a "Goldstein Supprt Group" do you thind that Winston will join?
ReplyDelete@sydney: That's true. But... it could be like the Wizard of Oz. The wizard himself hid so people would not look down on him when they realized he was not the god-like "wizard of oz" as he portrayed himself. Maybe "big brother" is someone who is nervous to show his true identity.
ReplyDelete@garrett u thuink he would because he doesnt seem very happy with bb
ReplyDelete@ Hannah - He could be a made up person, and they generated him by computer...afterall, everything comes over the telescreen, not seen in real life.
ReplyDeleteThe government uses the Two Minute Hate to control the citizens. Fear and blind thoughts are their primary method of control.
ReplyDelete@Hannah I don't know, but with all the facts that are just made up, I don't have a hard time imagining that they could make up Big Brother.
ReplyDeleteDoes Big Brother need to be real?
@Michaela, Maybe you're right, Big Brother is real because Goldstien would probably know if BB wasn't real and wouldn't go against him if he knew he wasn't
ReplyDeleteI think that victory is a goverment brand that is the onlyway to get stuff
ReplyDeleteGrace makes a really good point that the diary to Winston is like Clarisse was to Montage (in Fahrenheit 451) but they are also different because the diary is a way to unload Winston's thoughts so that he will not be given away by his emotions betraying him when expressed out in the open but Clarisse to Montage was a awkening call not really the diary a way to surprese their thoughtcrime. Big picture: Montage was ignorant and Clarisse changed that in him to were he thirsted for knowledge, but Winston is over knowledgable therefor the diary is to hide it form the "watcher", for him to appear ignorant
ReplyDelete@Garrett: If there was a support group for Goldstein, then i'm sure everyone in it would be/already have been vaporized. Its impossible to hide things from this sort of government.
ReplyDelete@Megan...Well bad for the government if they don't want you to know. But good for you to know if you're already being repressed by government.
ReplyDelete@Mikala: I think Goldstein is real.
ReplyDeleteI think that he drinks the gin to make himself think all is well...nothing bad will happen to him.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca, That's a good point, but they have to have someone be the government, why would they try to hide their identity?? They are altering what Big Brother says so that he is right, so that he is predicting things.
ReplyDelete@Garrett I think that Wilson is currently curious about Goldstein and his support group and since he has already challenged the government with his thinking and diary and is aware of the consequences, he will join.
ReplyDeleteCould all of the "victory" items be just a thing that the government gives people as a way to control them.
ReplyDelete@ Michaela: I agree with your reference to the WIzard of Oz. I think that if people realized how weak Big Brother might be, then people would decide to break free from his rulings and do their own thing. Big Brother sort of seems like a dictators, and dictators are only out for their own self-interests. If people went away from Big Brother, that would certainly not be what Big Brother wants, so I think that the possibility of him acting bigger than he is could be a possibility.
ReplyDelete@kelsie Is goldenstein real? Couldn't he already have been brought down by the government, and is no just held up as someone to be mad at?
ReplyDelete@Rebecca, I don't necessarily think that BB needs to be real. He will be the face of the government either way. This might sounds weird but what if Big Brother is like The Wizard Of Oz. The face of him is the face of the wizard; all powerful and mighty, but just a regular man in actuality.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca I don't think that Big Brother has to be real. I think Big Brother is just a mechanism made up by the government in order to strike fear into its citizens. If they always feel like they are being watched, they will not do anything against the governments rules. The idea of Big Brother is the governments best way to organize its citizens.
ReplyDelete@garrett thats pretty much what i said i being the only way to get stuff
ReplyDelete@Emily - Why would people think Big Brother is weak?
ReplyDeleteWhy would he drink it if it tastes like acid?
ReplyDelete@Rebecca I agree but I dont think that Big Brother needs to be real, I think that the main point of having him is to intimidate the people
ReplyDeleteGarrett-Exactly It is their "brand". The Victory is just to make the people think highly of the government, despite its low quality lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteNew Question: Why does Winston choose to write the diary?
ReplyDelete@mikaelam people will do a lot of stuff when theyre desperate
ReplyDelete@ Emma - I agree with you. Whether he is real or not, people aren't going to test him. It is a smart (but slightly cruel and privacy invading) way of controlling thier citizens.
ReplyDelete@emily: Yes, what I mean! Hes too ashamed to come out, for some reason. But what would the reason be...? Could he be some "low-life" like Syme or another begger? A child??
ReplyDelete@Mikaela: I don't necessarily believe that people would think Big Brother is weak, unless they kenw something about him. They have made it clear in this society that everyone is scared of Big Brother. However, information is powerful, and if people get a hold of it, they might know something that nobody else knows. For example, if Big Brother turns out to be weak and somebody finds out about it, then they would think that Big Brother is weak.
ReplyDeleteI think that the ministry of love is secret because there is somthing inside that the general public isn't supposed to know about because what is inside might destroy the government if it gets out.
ReplyDelete@ Griffin - Desperate for what?
ReplyDelete@Rebecca, I think he chooses to write the diary because he hopes that someone might understand it and the legacy of the oldspeak will live on and memories will last
ReplyDeleteThe diary is just Winstons therapy. Like Nicole said, he uses it as a way to avoid showing his true thoughts in public. It is a comforting thing for him to write his guilts and struggles down in a book.
ReplyDelete@Michaela Wilson is angry with big brother and the way that's his life and society in general is governed. He uses the drink to get away from it all.
ReplyDeleteSome of these books seem odd to me. If I was faced with this situation, I would try to break out. But possibly, they rule on total fear, not only vaporizing. Possibly we could learn something new as we go on, and how this totalarian rule works...
ReplyDelete@mikaelam he didnt have any food
ReplyDelete@michaela I think that he would drink the victory gin ecause it is a way for him to escape the emptiness of his situation.
ReplyDelete@ Michaela: I am pretty sure that this isn't a child. However, I can imagine that Big Brother was just the average adult who had good strategy and somehow gained power.
ReplyDelete@ Rebecca - I think he is writing the diary because he knows he can't change much with the powerful government. Unlike Montag, he is internalizing his anggry or hatred for his society...instead of making a change. The diary is a place for him to write his feelings...and it be as private as private gets in this society.
ReplyDeleteBut it hurts him (taste...) and he has to take it again every few hours. I don't know... It's just odd.
ReplyDeleteIs Winston's diary a result of his need to "break the rules"?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Zach. I think that Winston's diary is just a way for him to get his feelings and ideas out about their government. Also, Winston could be hoping that in the future, if things became better, that someone might find it and it would help that society better understand what was happening at this time.
ReplyDelete@Emily: Just a guess. But maybe he is a "Big Brother" and there isn't anyone hiding behind the curtain. If there is, they have to be hiding for something.
ReplyDelete@ Michaela - Maybe the pain of the gin is less than the pain of knowing the truth about everthing.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca rules can be made to be broken so possibly
ReplyDeleteI agree with Daneil when he says thhat the book is to scare not to be realistic.
ReplyDeleteWhy was Winston convinced that he and Syme and others were guaranteed to be vaporized in a matter of years? What about them is threatening to the government?
ReplyDelete@ Rebecca - Yes, but he knows there isn't much just HE can do...so he is just writing it down. (for now)
ReplyDelete@Michaela, I agree but there is no escaping, this is all most of these people have ever known, they don't know there's more
ReplyDelete@ Rebecca: Everybody at one point in their life has wanted to rebel. I think that Winston's diary might be involved with the urge to rebel. Also, I think that his diary might be him questioning if this is really right. His diary proves that Winston thinks for himself.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the gin makes them lazy with a don't-care attitude. Why would he leave the book open when the though poliece could be the ones who were banging on his door? Especially when the book said "Down with Big brother" many, many times? The gin is like a drug to keep you out of histerics.
ReplyDelete@ Holly - Winston thinks/knows Syme is TOO knowledgeable compared to average...he could begin to figure some things out.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca I think that Winston just needs an outlet to express how he feels. He could also be writing in the diary for future generations, hoping that in some way his diary can cause change.
ReplyDelete@rebecca, it could be a sense of rebellion or just a need to get ideas off his chest.
ReplyDeleteI think that big brother is an idea
ReplyDelete@Holly, they work for the gov. they know secrets that they would not be allowed to keep if they got fired or had to retire, or are they ever allowed to stop working for they gov
ReplyDelete@Mikalea: How does he "know everything"
ReplyDelete@Michaela: It would make sense that Winston drank the vicotry gin just to stick with the status quot, if he didn't his peculiar behavior would be seen as a reason for you to be prosecuted and vaporized or just disappear from the face of the earth. Just like how Winston always puts on a facade when it is expected of him to act a certain way, so he does not get ratted out, the gin is the same concept. Or maybe it just eases his pain from his aching body/ thoughts or he is so routine with drinking the victory gin it is hard to get out of the habit.
ReplyDelete@ Emily - Don't we know he wants to rebel? He wrote down DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER 5x, so he obviously is against/doesn't like something in society.
ReplyDelete@Griffin, how could be just an idea?
ReplyDeleteDoes Winston have thoughts of his own, or are people's thoughts shaped by the new governtment?If he doesn't, how long can he hld on to his own thoughts?
ReplyDeleteThey dont necesarily need a leader they just need to think they have a leader
ReplyDeleteKind of like Nicole said, I think that Winston might be doubting or worrying about his thoughts. Sometimes when people have thoughts that go off the status quo, they tend to think that they need to get back on track. Perhaps this was Winston's way of trying to get back on track.
ReplyDelete@Holly The government sees any imperfiction, such as a twich, as asign for revolt. Syme is too knowledgeable and speaks his mind, which makes him a threat. Whereas Wilson actually does have thoughts and expressions that relate to revolt.
ReplyDelete@Nicole: I agree with you in a sense. I can see why Winston could be able to make the choice, I just don't see why...
ReplyDelete@Griffin, so they just made him up completely?
ReplyDelete@inner circle
ReplyDeleteDo people obey Big Brother, or the social pressure of society?
@ Michaela - The corrupt society or the fact he thinks he and his diary will be found/caught and he'll be vaporized.
ReplyDeleteBig Brother really isn't a comforting figure....but a scary, threatning one.
ReplyDeleteI think that Winston hasa his own thoughts. He says that his mind isn't fully under control. In a way the government controls the thoughts of the people, but the people also have to play their part by using doublethink to suppress their own thoughts.
ReplyDeleteDoes it really matter if he is real or not? He's the head/face of the system and that's all that really matters so far in the book.
ReplyDelete@kelsie possibly he just might be a poster bo for theur government
ReplyDelete@ Rebecca - I think they are scared of Big Brother.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie- I think that the government could have possibly made up Big Brother in order to create an idea that they have a strong, powerful leader. I don't think Big Brother necessarily has to be real in order to govern or rule the people.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca The government does not control their thoughts because then Winston would not think about the real past and a society that is different. On the other hand, the government uses fear to instill that if they did have improper thoughts they would be vaporized.
ReplyDelete@mikalea: then why was he too lazy to put the book away?
ReplyDelete@ Kelsi & Emma - I agree with Emma, as Big Brother doesn't have to be real to be a scary...threatining figure.
ReplyDeleteGarrett: Thats true.. he's still an intimidating figure either way
ReplyDelete@Rebecca, I'm not the inner circle but I think that BB created the social norms so they sort of obey them both
ReplyDeleteYeah Mark the urban areas are in bad shape. They're in bad shape in Detroit too and the citizens are rebuilding.
ReplyDelete@ Mikaela: I think that they are scared of big brother, but on the other hand, having somebody ruling over might be a comforting idea. If everyone were running around wild, then that would be considered scary to many people. I think that the idea of having somebody who is trying to keep order that might be a little scary is more preferable then everyone running around like maniacs. However, that's not to say that they don't want a different ruler.
ReplyDeleteIs thinking about breaking the law also wrong?
ReplyDeleteI agree with garrett on their cities
ReplyDelete@ Michaela - I think he forgot...and it would have taken too long for him to go to his desk...close the book, put it away...and run back to the door. If the thoughtpolice were really at the door, then they would become suspicious if it took him sorta long to get to the door. I also think that Winston may have been thinking that if it were the ThougtPolice, he was bound to get caught eventually...why no now.
ReplyDeleteAre the people of Oceania afraid of what life would be without BB, possible choas(people used to being controled and suddenly they have no one telling them what to do(huge jump there)) rather than with BB?
ReplyDeleteOff of Marias comment I think that the government is like the "specials" and they are controlling the "pretties" which are the citizens
ReplyDelete@ Rebecca - I think it DEFINTLEY is wrong to think against the government. If they were to let you think against them, if too many people began to think that way...the government could be overthrown.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the general public knows what is happening like they did in Germany. I think that only the very top teir of the government does.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca, thinking in general seems to be illegal in this society. so, yes
ReplyDeleteQuestion: What do you tink the slogan of The Party means: "Who controls the past controls the future: Who controls the present controls the past."
ReplyDelete@ Rebecca: The government probably views it as wrong, because you are going against their values, but not everybody would. Some people think that questioning the current state of things is a great idea.For example, in the Scopes Monkey Trial, John T. Scopes questioned if the teachings were right, even though the government was adament that it wasn't okay to teach evolution. Many people thought that John Scopes's questioning the law as good and others didn't. I think that it just depends who you are and what your views are.
ReplyDelete@Michaela, He wasn't too lazy, he wanted to let the ink dry, he likes his diary, he wants it to be nice because it's nice paper and ink etc...
ReplyDelete@Nicole-I think that the people of Oceania would be afraid in life without Big Brother. I think that the citizens would kinda be lost and they wouldn't know how to live their lives. Without BB, no one would be telling them how to behave.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Michaela - Maybe...they want government to be the same forever.
ReplyDelete@Nicole-I think that BB is comforting to the people. Their lives are so easy. They can just move through it, completely ignorant of what is going on around them. Life without BB would be harder, there would be choice and variations. this scares them.
ReplyDelete@mikalea: If thats that case, then I think that hes turning into a Mildred from F451
ReplyDelete@ Zach: Do you think that BB will always make their lives easier or eventually do you think that he will do something dangerous in his rulings that might cause a challenge for the people?
ReplyDelete@ Michaela - Who is going to influence like Mildred did? Or his he like Montag...who makes the change?
ReplyDelete@nicole Absoulutely. I think that their society got this way because they wanted that stabiity. (That is how Hitler took control)
ReplyDelete@Emily-Well, he is creating constant warfare, that is bound to backfire at some point. They can't survive with a society like theirs forever
ReplyDeleteBB like a snuggy for the people he is something warm and comforting but still allows some life and movement
ReplyDelete@Mikaela: He will make a change, where else would the book go if he didn't? I just think that he might be falling under the influence of Big Brother.
ReplyDelete@Zach Why not?
ReplyDelete@Nicole I believe that at this point, life seems impossible without big brother and that the government is seen as right and just too many people. Although the people are scared of BB, there more scared of losing their way of life.
ReplyDeleteI think the Spies are like Superman. The children in that era want to be like them.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca- I think that in our society it is wrong to break the laws, but not necessarily to think against the government. Some groups of people throughtout history have thought badly of the government, and although they may have punishments for their actions, they don't have punishments for their thoughts.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think would happen if Big Brother went away?
ReplyDelete@mikaela: Right. They make the Spies look like something appealing to younger minds.
ReplyDelete@ Michaela - I was just wondering why he would be like Mildred? What did Mildred do, that you think Winston will do? Montag is the one that made the change in F451.
ReplyDelete@Zach: People crave some sort of control one way or another just because of the security of knowing someone is watching out for you in a certain sense (all the time hoping the person telling you what to do has your best interest in mine), I think control is necessary up to a point and Oceania is way passed that point.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie: Then like what Mr. Lukes said, if Mrs. Mortiz left or didn't show up class there would be chaos.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca-Their production is dropping, people are dying, and their buildings are falling apart around them. There would probably be a point where they bottom out and then begin a new era, but they would be vulnerable during that low period.
ReplyDelete@ Kelsie: I think there would be serious chaos and a power struggle. That's what tends to happen when there is no government.
ReplyDeleteIt's important for the younger generation to want to become spies...otherwise when the next generation came along...the governemtnt with the Spies would wear out.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie - One word: CHAOS.
ReplyDelete@Griffin, First off, it's Snuggie (haha). And second, I don't know if he's comforting, but he's all tat they know. Just like F451.
ReplyDeleteIf BB went away they would have to get a new leader but you cant compete with the snuggies(BB) freedom the new leader would be like a normal blanket no hands
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Griffin - Nice connection? :)
ReplyDeleteIf the government was gone in any society, it would be chaos.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie BB is a figure of power and strength. I'm sure that the government would just find another figure to take his place.
ReplyDelete@rebecca: Exactly!
ReplyDelete@Rebacca, Would there be people like Montag in F451? People who are ready to jump in and take advantage of the fall of the gov.?
ReplyDelete@ Mikaela: I think that some people in the younger generation will want to be spies. There are always those people who are immersed in the government no matter what the government stands for. Plus, this government seems like a government that would force people to become spies anyway or else there would be severe punishment.
ReplyDelete@ Hannah - I agree...whether the government is comforting or scary, there needs to be one.
ReplyDelete@mikaela. I think Winston is becoming more rebellious, not less
ReplyDelete@ Emily - I don't know about everyone else, but we do know that those little kids want to be spies. I think the government likes that the younger generation wants to carryout the same duties.
ReplyDeleteWhat does doublethink mean again?
ReplyDeleteIts not bad to have a leader. Its actually a good thing, and something that is necessary.
ReplyDelete@Sydney No one would be able to get far enough to be like Montag. The government can see everything...
ReplyDelete@Megan:disrupting the way of life can be dangerous especially when people where ment to think that BB is doing them more good then harm when they constantly change the past to put them in the lime light and seem all knowing.So why shoot BB down when it appears they are improving the way of life? That would be the people of Oceania's rebuttle.
ReplyDelete@ Rebecca - I do too. I think that he will just write in his diary for now, and then rebel. As, the book wouldn't have much of a plot if he just keeps writing this rebellious stuff down. I don't know about you, but I would loose interest in the book if Winston doesn't do anything.
ReplyDeleteThe party slogan War is Peace is like foul os fair fair is foul
ReplyDelete@ Michaela: Would it still be good if the leader wanted to do bad things with the country?
ReplyDeleteFreedom is one of those things that comes with great responsibility. You have to be able to manage it in an acceptable way.
ReplyDeleteIs there a real government, or is it only a threat?
ReplyDelete@Mikaela: I agree, they are getting it into their heads early so its all that they ever want to know, all they ever DO know.
ReplyDeleteIn place of Mrs. Moritz; Last Thoughts?
ReplyDelete@ Griffin - How?
ReplyDelete@EMily: No. They have to make good decisions. Not a villian.
ReplyDelete@Inner Circle: Everyone is talking about ignorance. Is ignorance strength?
ReplyDeleteI think that what this society doesis capture the fact that belief creates reality. If you don't believe it, IT IS NOT REAL.
ReplyDeleteI think that Big Brother is a real person. However, I think it could be possible that Big Brother’s face is just the face of a random, powerful and threatening man. Maybe Big Brother’s words and actions are the words and actions of certain Party members, or even one. Maybe if Big Brother is an actual person, he isn’t really what he is made up to be. Maybe he has no idea what he is doing. Maybe he is like the Wizard of Oz.
ReplyDeleteZach – what will Syme do to make the government realise that he needs to be vaporized? He is really smart, and Winston thinks he is too smart… how does this make sense?
I agree that more information makes better decisions, but just like in Fahrenheit, someone will disagree and someone will be offended and something bad will happen.
Michaela – Why wouldn’t they want the ability to learn? Then again, if they eliminate the want to learn, they will ultimately eliminate the ability. But why?
I agree with Mikaela in that Montag had a larger sense of space to feel what he felt. However, Winston is not so lucky, because of the telescreens.
I also agree that how no one really appears to see or interact with BB suggests fear. And also – if he did make these speeches, where? When? Who saw them? Who can verify? Perhaps there is an actor acting as BB in revised videos of speeches, if there are any. I think the government just wants everyone to agree with them. Everyone think the same way.
I think Goldstein is very real. Something about him, in the Two Minutes Hate, just gives the impression that he is actual. The visuals of the army, and the reports of what he has done. Goldstein’s society obviously does not have the society BB has, with the telescreens and revising of everything to make sure he is always correct. And with no one to revise Goldstein’s actions, they must be real.
I see that in Fahrenheit and in 1984 that large parts of the novels have to do with the written word – documents – and erasing history. In Fahrenheit it is actual books, in 1984 it is Winston’s diary. I get the feeling of the struggle of survival of these objects.
But why erase history? And how, really, do they do so?
And since the government is revising everything to make what BB say would happen actually happen, why don’t any people in the society that are not members of the Party ever wonder why it works out so perfectly? Maybe the threat, maybe the day to day life, maybe the “unconciious” lifestyle Winston describes everyone to have. But what is the point of the Party?
Also, totalitarianism in history always has a leader – a leader that is seen and that interacts. It’s different with BB.
ReplyDeleteI think that Griffin brings up a good point, though. What if the government is actually making the Two Minute Hates? What if it is one of the sick, twisted ways they manipulate society? Questionable.
And why, really, does Winston want “down with BB”?
Yes – what is with the “victory” stuff? I’m confused.
I agree with Michaela – it seems absolutely impossible to hide things in this kind of
government.
And if everything is being revised so that BB is right – everything will not be up to date. Saying things just happened, that actually happened last year. Is that how time is lost?
Becca – I think Winston is writing the diary because he wants to remember most things, but in a way at the same time wants to forget the things that he doesn’t want to remember… So they’re not bouncing around in his head, like the story with the prostitute. Perhaps to just make himself realise what the government is repressing everyone of. To know what kind of world he lives in.
Mikaela – no one will test BB… what about Winston? Will he do something?
I also was wondering about the Ministry of Love. Probably not what we think of as love.
If the diary is Winston’s therapy, and it is comforting for him to right his frustrations down, why has he only started writing now? Why not a while ago?
Becca brings up a good point – maybe part of the reason why Winston is writing the diary is to feel that he is doing something he shouldn’t be. To know he is doing something he shouldn’t be. I think Winston was talking about rebellion… maybe somewhere around the story of the prostitute? He also mentioned that he tried to love his wife and touch his wife, Katharine, but she wouldn’t let him. That is rebellion against society. How did the government not see that he was physically attracted to her? Was this possibly an issue that lead to the creation of the telescreen? Were there telescreens when Winston was with Katharine?
My take on the gin is similar to Mikaela’s – I think Winston may drink it to escape and get away from the pain he feels with the world he lives in. But if this were true, why would the government supply the gin?
I was also wondering that, Holly – why are he and Syme threatening to the government, but the others aren’t? Perhaps he believes there is a possibility of realization of what is wrong, whereas people like Parsons and the man who quacks like a duck just… quack. Again, the unconscious feeling and thinking and belief that what is is what should be. This concept relates to Fahrenheit, Pedestrian, and HB as well.
ReplyDeleteYes, Mikaela – Syme may be too knowledgeable… but so far, his knowledge is used for the benefit of BB and society and government. And it doesn’t seem that the government will always need such people – going back to what Zach said earlier. They need people to do the work. Most Party members are probably not extremely intelligent. And if Syme were to realise what is wrong, what would lead him to that realization? Does the government know this about Syme and are planning to vaporize him when his Dictionary is done? My question is if this change in Syme happens – when will it happen, and why. What will Syme think is wrong.
I think Sydney brings up a really great point – the Party members know what BB said at his last speech, and they know what they change his words to be. They know things. They know how the government works. If anyone were to leave… they would probably have to vaporize them for fear of the truth being revealed and possible rebellion. Again, with the purpose of the telescreens. Fear is present in this society through the posters of BB and the telescreens. This is how the government keeps its citizens – and its employees – in line. I keep thinking, though, that there must be places where there are no telescreens.
I like Nicole’s idea of the gin – just keeping the status quo. Doing what you have to do.
I think it is obvious that Winston has his own thoughts. “DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER” is probably not what every citizen is writing in their secret diaries. Then again, we never know. But I believe it is Winston thinking for himself in this case. Why would Orwell choose to have the main character be Winston and to have the story be told through Winston’s eyes if everyone else in the story felt the same way?
I agree with Griffin – thinking they have a leader is all they need. Related to faith, in a way.
Emily – I think the “getting back on track with the status quo” concept you brought up is fantastic. We all feel wrong if we think a certain way sometimes, or if our opinion differs from that of someone else. We like to fit in. Does the gin help him feel like a part of society? And of course, one must realise that we are able, in our society today, to have differing opinions. Not in Winston’s.
I agree with Megan – Syme’s knowledge right now may be in favor of the government and Ingsoc(What is Ingsoc?), but it may change to a threat.
Becca – ultimately, isn’t BB and the pressure of society the same thing?
ReplyDeleteZach – what is doublethink?
I agree with Garrett in wondering whether BB is real or not is even relevant.
The government is trying its best to control peoples’ thoughts. Fear, thought police, etc.
Emily – is there a balance in this society between fear of BB and trust in BB? Is that why it is working?
Becca – I think that thinking about breaking the law is wrong. The entire concept is backwards thinking, in truth. Thinking about doing something that you aren’t supposed to be doing – and in doing so, are breaking the law. Like Mikaela said – the government will not simply let people think differently than them. It’s out of the question.
I agree with Sydney in that Winston left the diary open to preserve its prettiness. Also – maybe to keep him, funnily enough, up-to-date on his personal beliefs of the system. The whole “keeping him on track with the status quo idea” – possibly to keep himself from going off track. Reminding him of what he thinks. In this society, memory is lost.
Zach – Yes, ignorant. Life is easy. Sounds like Fahrenheit, no?
Emily – remember that the government revises everything that BB says.
Yes Zach – But what is happening with all this warfare? And why can’t they live in this type of society forever?
Griffin – interesting bring up of the Snuggie. But is there wiggle room in this society?
All this talk of Winston possibly falling under the influence of BB… remember back to the Two Minutes Hate? He started out feeling anger towards BB. Then his anger altered toward Goldstein, like it is supposed to. He is doubting, and he is bouncing back and forth. “Keeping on track…”
Are the spies like the firemen in Fahrenheit? The people that seem to keep society working… the ones that are seen in action, doing their jobs?
I agree with Emma – Actions are not the same thing as thoughts. Thinking is not really doing, but it leads to doing.
I think in this whole comparison of Winston to Mildred and Winston to Montag that Winston is somewhere in the middle. Montag seems to be in full fledged rebellion against the government; Mildred seems to be in full fledged loyalty to the government. Winston seems to be moving back and forth. Both sides of his issue are powerful.
ReplyDeleteMichaela – there already is a level of chaos in our classroom. Is there a possibility of chaos even when the posters of BB are still hanging on the walls?
Sydney – is the question whether BB is comforting, or whether he feels comforting?
This whole Snuggie comparison may prove to be actually valid. Aren’t Snuggies sort of… wrong? The idea of a backwards robe? And doesn’t this society, under BB, appear sort of… wrong, as well? Why not just turn the robe around? This ultimately leads to the question about whether what is considered a “good type of government” can appeal to everyone, and everyone can have the opportunity to wear it the way they like? And even on the flip side of that – is Winston just wearing his robe a different way?
Sydney – was there a fall of the government in Fahrenheit?
Yes – the government can see practically everything, it seems, in Winston’s world. Fairly different than Montag’s. How will Winston be able to challenge the system when BB’s eyes are always watching him?
But how, Nic, is BB improving their way of life? I don’t understand.
Mikaela – we write things down in order to organize our thoughts and our lives, correct? So is it possible to think that Winston’s writing in his diary is his way of organizing all these crazy things that he is thinking?
Griffin – I agree with your comparison of “Fair is foul and foul is fair” to “War is peace.” I just don’t know exactly how. I’d like to talk about his more. Maybe that war may seem to be foul, but it will bring peace, which is fair?
Emily – if a leader wanted to do bad things – well, it would matter on what kind of government the leader lead. In a totalitarian society – sure! But in a democracy? I’d say not. This also relates to “Fair is foul and foul is fair.” Foul things may be done – but they may be done for the interest of the country (fair) or they may appear to be fair.
Yes, Sydney – just like in Fahrenheit, telling them what they know.
I agree with Becca – nothing really is real if you don’t believe it is. Belief creates reality. I think so.