I don't think it is. It is just a way for the author to develop the story. It needs to flow and can't jump from spot to spot. The sea shell is a filler and helps transition the story.
I think Winston buying the paperweight doesn't really mean anything truly monumental, and i don't think that he's "rebelling" by buying it. I think that it shows how little people buy antiques anymore because the paperweight was so cheap.
I agree with Joe, because when he bought the seashell he was acting a little like people now would act. In the present time in the book, no one buys anything anymore. So like the Journal he was rebelling by buying something.
Buying the seashell is a personal form of organized rebellion. Winston is willing to take a risk for the sake of a personal war of not letting the government take over. The diary recognizes his inner questioning of the government.
As a response to the question Emma said, about him all of a sudden becoming rebellious. This reminds me of Lord of the Flies and how everyone has a small hint of evil and rebellion and like what Rae said, it just takes something to trigger it. So the question is, what happened before the book that triggered his rebellion?
I think that Kathrine leaving Winston really made him snap and realize what was going on in his society. I also agree with Troy when he says that the journal is a key factor in the story, because I think that Winston is using it to try and portray his feeliungs about his current situation and to tell the people of the future what is happening is his world.
I thought that Winston bought a glass paper weight, not a seashell? But I think it symbolizes his thoughts of rebellion. It is small, but it is there. He talks about how he feels the stone in his pocket, and how he is worried someone would notice it. Like how he doesn't want people to know about his thoughts against the goverment.
The diary is Winston's escape, he wrote it to express himself. The buying of the paperweight is a more deliberate thought out action against the system.
I think Orwell put Winston buying the sea shell in because it shows that Winston finally realized that the government is not all that it seems. His life might be fairly good and not have too many problems, however there are people who live in fear every day. This is to show readers that there is always two sides everything, even a perfect seaming Government
At one point Winston said that he was writing the diary for O'Brien. However, it could be for a future that no longer has any hope and could urge them on toward rebellion.
Winston's diary was his own personal handwriting which cannot be edited by the government. I think if someone the future were to find this journal, then it would probably just be burned. (Not edited)
His buying the weight is his own personal organization of a rebellion, saying that he wants to change the way things are in society. He resents the Thought Police and their authority in the world.
Remeber during the two minute hate at the beginning of the book? The girl sat behind him and he talked about how much he wanted to burn her on a steak naked. He was angry that she was against sex, because he wanted to have sex with her!
I believe sex is a very intimate and emotional part of a relationship. I think it's kind of sad that Winston can't feel those emotions when he was with his wife, and ultimately I think that is what caused him to leave her.
Today in History we were talking about Germany and how they encouraged all of the girls to have kids after kids after kids so they can keep the "master race" population. I just thought that was a way, like what Joe said, that Government has control over reproducing and sex, for whatever reason.
I think that the relationship between the girl and Winston will become the main aspect of the story. The girl will be a key part in the rebellion with Winston
Off of what Joe said, maybe the phrase "love at first sight" applies to the situation with Winston and the girl, and I think that's what caused her to write the note.
@mmoritz i agree. the dark haired girl is something important in the plot and is going to escalate the story. She isn't just there for nothing... @Joe R. I agree with you too. Although, she might be being controlled through the whole process and i think she might be trying to seduce him and is a detective.
When the woman wrote "I love you" on the note, it was a little obscure because they have never talked before, but she wanted to get to know him because he opposes the government.
I don't think she technically "loves" Winston. I think she finds out that he is one person that she has found to rebel a little against the government.
I dont think that she is just throwing "i love you" out there just for the heck of it. she could be killed for saying this so i think that she actually means it.
I think in the society of 1984, that maybe they throw around the saying. From what I've observed in the book, I noticed that there is not really a lot of love so maybe like someone in the circle or Mrs. Moritz said it was just a pick up line
I still don't understand how the government is "brainwashing" the people. I mean, besides the fact of Big Brother appearing on the screen talking to all of the people, I haven't seen any other examples that might suggest that the government has complete control over the common man.
think the purpose of the “I love you” was to really get his attention. He didn’t notice her of even like her. She might of noticed him and thought he would be helpful to over throw the government. However she needed a way to get herself noticed by him and this was the best way she could think of.
the girl might be conspiring against Winston. May be she knows what he is up to and ants to get a look first hand of what he is doing. She might be a spy member of the thought police.
I agree I think the girl could be part of the thought police. It makes sence. First she follows him around and gives him a note, and then she tells him to meet her places.
@Cloe- It is odd... It kind of makes me think that maybe she's a spy and she is suppoesed to seduce him and make him say something that would get him arrested by the thought police... Maybe she is the thought police.
I agree @mmoritz. The woman is hard to read, but Winston is reading her wrong. He cannot get his thoughts straight about her and i think he should agree to an idea about her.
I do not think that the woman is a detective and just trying to seduce him; I think Winston would catch on to that. I think it could turn into "true love". We will see where that goes.
Well OBVIOUSLY they have sex, enough people have claimed that, that have read the book. I agree with Troy, this isn't our world! We might not understand why they have sex. But it happens.
Even if this thing between Winston and the girl lasts, I don't think it will be a happy relationship because I think that the sex has kind of turned into..........routine, and doesn't really having any meaning behind it.
Again I agree with Cloe. If you think about it, to our grandparents and even our parents, some of the things that people are doing today are totally alien to them. To my grandparents and great- grandparents, if soemone had sex and wasn't married they would be exciled from the community. But today it's what almost everyone is doing and it's totally normal to do it. So what they are doing in the book seems really weird to us, but to them it's perfectly normal.
I think that the whole world in 1984 doesn’t have true feelings. The government wants no one to feel happiness or anger and there for no one can feel love.
I think that the girl will have what winstons wife didn't. The girl will have the desire for him and care for him, instad of just laying there during sex
The hope lies in the proles because they are the people that are allowed to defy the government, by being made an example what life is like without the party. This is why Winston sees hope in them.
Paroles don't care. they don't have a reason to care. They are left alone and not bothered so they don't have a reason to care. They enjoy their life, how boring it may be and can live it without harm. They are capitalists in a facist world.
I disagree. I don't think the proles would rebel even if they could. They seem like people who appreciate the past but also drink it away at the bar (like the old man at the bar).
I think there is hope in the proles. They are te only peoplpe tat aren't constantly watched. All they need is someone to educate them on how to rebel. Maybe Winston will be the one to show the proles how to become superior.
The proles do not know how to rebel, they are ignorant, and would almost rather be free than controlled by the government, which is why they are allowed to roam free.
The oppressed people don't know what goes on outside of their little world, and so they find that their lives in their worlds are the best they can be with the rules or laws that restrict them.
There are proles who remeber what the past was like! The old man avoided Winstons questions about the past, but he does remeber. There are people in this society who KNOW which society is better.
I agree with joe. if the proles are hungry, they will want more food. if they are cold, they will want to be warm. the reason that they havnt rebeled is fear.
I don’t think the proles rebel because they don’t know that they can. The Government has done such a good job controlling them that they don’t realize that all of them out together could overtake the government. They also don’t understand that their life is bad. What they have is all they ever known. They don’t realize that they should have it better or even what better is.
@Matt- When you said that love in undefinable it reminded me of when, last year in Mr. Maness's class he stated "There are three things that don't exist, 1 demensional figures, love,..." i cant remember the last thing. But anyways maybe the way the people were living in the book, doesn't really involve love, so love is just tossed around like any other word.
The old man cannot recollect main ideas of the past, just snips of memory. It shows the reader what a man from the past can become in the society of the future.
Maybe the proles are scared of remembering the past because the past was so much better than the present. That could have been why the old man was trying to avoid Winston's question.
Orwell put the old man in the book to show that the proles are extremely brainwashed. They can’t understand that their life’s used to be better and if they all came together they could have a better life, yet no one knows that.
What's strange to me is, how other people in the Party (the age of the old man) don't think like Winston does. Or why don't they remember the past as well?
In 1984, God is Big Brother because that's all they look up to. This is just like in several of the axis powers, where religious beliefs were frowned upon.
I think that old people are kind of the keys to the past, because they know what happned in the past, so would you say the older people in 1984 are purged more then others? Or are frowned upon?
I think that since the majority of the people know that history is being changed so if the old man let the truth be known then the people would doubt the government. So the people and the proles will have the ability to learn from the past and see how bad their situation is.
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ReplyDeleteI don't think it is. It is just a way for the author to develop the story. It needs to flow and can't jump from spot to spot. The sea shell is a filler and helps transition the story.
ReplyDeleteI think that Winston purchasing the glass was him taking action and rebelling other than just thinking about it.
ReplyDeleteI think Winston buying the paperweight doesn't really mean anything truly monumental, and i don't think that he's "rebelling" by buying it. I think that it shows how little people buy antiques anymore because the paperweight was so cheap.
ReplyDeleteThe PAPER WEIGHT that is CORAL and GLASS is representitive of an older world where beauty is appreciated.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Joe, because when he bought the seashell he was acting a little like people now would act. In the present time in the book, no one buys anything anymore. So like the Journal he was rebelling by buying something.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Peter. I don't think that the sea shell isn't really an important factor in the plot of the story.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Cassie, I think that he meant to start something by purchasing the glass, and that was him taking action.
ReplyDeleteBuying the seashell is a personal form of organized rebellion. Winston is willing to take a risk for the sake of a personal war of not letting the government take over. The diary recognizes his inner questioning of the government.
ReplyDeleteTHe incentive moment is when he gets the journal. It is the way that he deals with things.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emma. Orwell wanted to write this book for others to see it and prepare for what could happen.
ReplyDeleteAs a response to the question Emma said, about him all of a sudden becoming rebellious. This reminds me of Lord of the Flies and how everyone has a small hint of evil and rebellion and like what Rae said, it just takes something to trigger it. So the question is, what happened before the book that triggered his rebellion?
ReplyDeleteI think that Kathrine leaving Winston really made him snap and realize what was going on in his society. I also agree with Troy when he says that the journal is a key factor in the story, because I think that Winston is using it to try and portray his feeliungs about his current situation and to tell the people of the future what is happening is his world.
ReplyDeleteI thought that Winston bought a glass paper weight, not a seashell? But I think it symbolizes his thoughts of rebellion. It is small, but it is there. He talks about how he feels the stone in his pocket, and how he is worried someone would notice it. Like how he doesn't want people to know about his thoughts against the goverment.
ReplyDeleteThe diary is Winston's escape, he wrote it to express himself. The buying of the paperweight is a more deliberate thought out action against the system.
ReplyDeleteI think Orwell put Winston buying the sea shell in because it shows that Winston finally realized that the government is not all that it seems. His life might be fairly good and not have too many problems, however there are people who live in fear every day. This is to show readers that there is always two sides everything, even a perfect seaming Government
ReplyDeleteAt one point Winston said that he was writing the diary for O'Brien. However, it could be for a future that no longer has any hope and could urge them on toward rebellion.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Troy, the journal is more important to the story than the sea shell. It is an outlet to see and absorb what Winston feels.
ReplyDeleteWinston's diary was his own personal handwriting which cannot be edited by the government. I think if someone the future were to find this journal, then it would probably just be burned. (Not edited)
ReplyDeleteI entirely agree with Cloe!! The seashell/ glass paper weight symbolizes rebellion! "It is small but it is still there"
ReplyDeleteHis buying the weight is his own personal organization of a rebellion, saying that he wants to change the way things are in society. He resents the Thought Police and their authority in the world.
ReplyDeleteBut I thought they encouraged sex?
ReplyDeleteThey encourage it as a duty to the Party, and to produce children.
ReplyDeleteRemeber during the two minute hate at the beginning of the book? The girl sat behind him and he talked about how much he wanted to burn her on a steak naked. He was angry that she was against sex, because he wanted to have sex with her!
ReplyDeleteI believe sex is a very intimate and emotional part of a relationship. I think it's kind of sad that Winston can't feel those emotions when he was with his wife, and ultimately I think that is what caused him to leave her.
ReplyDelete@Katie F They ecourage the "duty to the party" not sex itself.
ReplyDeleteI think the girl is ment to look like a party member but she is a member of the Brotherhood and she will help Winston rebel.
ReplyDeleteI Agree with Mrs. Moritz that she will be very important.
ReplyDeleteToday in History we were talking about Germany and how they encouraged all of the girls to have kids after kids after kids so they can keep the "master race" population. I just thought that was a way, like what Joe said, that Government has control over reproducing and sex, for whatever reason.
ReplyDeleteI think that the relationship between the girl and Winston will become the main aspect of the story. The girl will be a key part in the rebellion with Winston
ReplyDeleteOff of what Joe said, maybe the phrase "love at first sight" applies to the situation with Winston and the girl, and I think that's what caused her to write the note.
ReplyDelete@mmoritz i agree. the dark haired girl is something important in the plot and is going to escalate the story. She isn't just there for nothing... @Joe R. I agree with you too. Although, she might be being controlled through the whole process and i think she might be trying to seduce him and is a detective.
ReplyDelete@Corbin A Katherine was the one who left Winston, because they did not have children.
ReplyDeleteWhen the woman wrote "I love you" on the note, it was a little obscure because they have never talked before, but she wanted to get to know him because he opposes the government.
ReplyDeleteI don't think she technically "loves" Winston. I think she finds out that he is one person that she has found to rebel a little against the government.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it odd, though that she passed him the note in such an obviouse place? Right infront of a telescreen?
ReplyDeleteThe girl is confusing.
ReplyDelete@Cloe- Winston said that the whole "note passing" was not noticeable at all by the telescreen.
ReplyDeleteI dont think that she is just throwing "i love you" out there just for the heck of it. she could be killed for saying this so i think that she actually means it.
ReplyDeleteI think in the society of 1984, that maybe they throw around the saying. From what I've observed in the book, I noticed that there is not really a lot of love so maybe like someone in the circle or Mrs. Moritz said it was just a pick up line
ReplyDeleteI still don't understand how the government is "brainwashing" the people. I mean, besides the fact of Big Brother appearing on the screen talking to all of the people, I haven't seen any other examples that might suggest that the government has complete control over the common man.
ReplyDeletethink the purpose of the “I love you” was to really get his attention. He didn’t notice her of even like her. She might of noticed him and thought he would be helpful to over throw the government. However she needed a way to get herself noticed by him and this was the best way she could think of.
ReplyDelete@Cassie-Ok, but i wonder if she is trying to trap Winston.
ReplyDeletei think that the girl and winston are going to have sex
ReplyDeletethe girl might be conspiring against Winston. May be she knows what he is up to and ants to get a look first hand of what he is doing. She might be a spy member of the thought police.
ReplyDeleteShe could be trying to get Winstons attention with the note. She could then trap him and Winston could be killed
ReplyDelete@Cloe- True, she could be trying to just catch him and then turn him in.
ReplyDeleteI think that the girl put the "i love you" out there to tell Winston that she is against the party. Not that she really loves him.
ReplyDeleteI agree I think the girl could be part of the thought police. It makes sence. First she follows him around and gives him a note, and then she tells him to meet her places.
ReplyDelete@Cloe- It is odd... It kind of makes me think that maybe she's a spy and she is suppoesed to seduce him and make him say something that would get him arrested by the thought police... Maybe she is the thought police.
ReplyDeleteI agree @mmoritz. The woman is hard to read, but Winston is reading her wrong. He cannot get his thoughts straight about her and i think he should agree to an idea about her.
ReplyDeleteI think that Winston and the girl are going to eventually have a relationship together, and I think they will end up having sex.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that the woman is a detective and just trying to seduce him; I think Winston would catch on to that. I think it could turn into "true love". We will see where that goes.
ReplyDeleteI think he should just settle on one thing he wants to get straight about her, and then find out more later.
ReplyDeleteI think Winston and the girl are exactly the opposite of what a happy couple should be like.
ReplyDeleteThere isn't any love in this society anymore.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kai. Love becomes overated.
ReplyDeleteI also think that these two are taking things too fast. I also think that Orwell put it to show readers what this world has really come to.
ReplyDeleteWell OBVIOUSLY they have sex, enough people have claimed that, that have read the book. I agree with Troy, this isn't our world! We might not understand why they have sex. But it happens.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mrs. Mortiz because Bradbury was just trying to depict how pathetic and unknowing this society is.
ReplyDeleteThey are going to have Sex.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Cloe.
ReplyDeleteEven if this thing between Winston and the girl lasts, I don't think it will be a happy relationship because I think that the sex has kind of turned into..........routine, and doesn't really having any meaning behind it.
ReplyDeleteThere isn't any love in this society because it's just duty, it's just what the Party wants them to do so they must just do it.
ReplyDeleteSaying i love you has become a very broad term. Love is almost undefinable because it is used for so many things.
ReplyDeleteI think that texting takes away a lot from conversation. If you are actually talking you can see emotion and it's more personal.
ReplyDeleteI think that the girl would have told Winstin that she loves him to his face instead of the note, but she didn't want to scare him.
ReplyDeleteIm not really a fan of texting. its more confusing and less genuine that having a conversation.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Matt, because we say it to our friends, our family, and also, at an older age, we say to the peron we really do love.
ReplyDeleteAgain I agree with Cloe. If you think about it, to our grandparents and even our parents, some of the things that people are doing today are totally alien to them. To my grandparents and great- grandparents, if soemone had sex and wasn't married they would be exciled from the community. But today it's what almost everyone is doing and it's totally normal to do it. So what they are doing in the book seems really weird to us, but to them it's perfectly normal.
ReplyDeleteI think that the whole world in 1984 doesn’t have true feelings. The government wants no one to feel happiness or anger and there for no one can feel love.
ReplyDeleteI think that the girl will have what winstons wife didn't. The girl will have the desire for him and care for him, instad of just laying there during sex
ReplyDelete@Matt- I agree, "I love you" is tossed around so much nowdays and it doesn't really have true meaning sometimes.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really a big fan of texting either. Sometimes people talk over texting, but once they get face to face they can say anything to each other
ReplyDeleteThe hope lies in the proles because they are the people that are allowed to defy the government, by being made an example what life is like without the party. This is why Winston sees hope in them.
ReplyDeleteParoles don't care. they don't have a reason to care. They are left alone and not bothered so they don't have a reason to care. They enjoy their life, how boring it may be and can live it without harm. They are capitalists in a facist world.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. I don't think the proles would rebel even if they could. They seem like people who appreciate the past but also drink it away at the bar (like the old man at the bar).
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if there is anyone else out there like Winston that is thinking freely and beginning to rebel against the government.
ReplyDeleteI think there is hope in the proles. They are te only peoplpe tat aren't constantly watched. All they need is someone to educate them on how to rebel. Maybe Winston will be the one to show the proles how to become superior.
ReplyDeleteThe proles don't understand how much better life could be than it is, but they are more afraid of the consequences than they trust the benefits.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Peter, they are living their life and don't really care about rebelling at this point.
ReplyDeleteThe proles aren't the majority, therefore if they rebelled, it wouldn't do anything. The Party would just take them out and move on.
ReplyDeleteThe proles do not know how to rebel, they are ignorant, and would almost rather be free than controlled by the government, which is why they are allowed to roam free.
ReplyDeleteThe proles have no power besides will to rebel. if they rebelled they wouldent be able to do anything during the rebellion
ReplyDeleteThe oppressed people don't know what goes on outside of their little world, and so they find that their lives in their worlds are the best they can be with the rules or laws that restrict them.
ReplyDeleteThere are proles who remeber what the past was like! The old man avoided Winstons questions about the past, but he does remeber. There are people in this society who KNOW which society is better.
ReplyDeleteI agree with joe. if the proles are hungry, they will want more food. if they are cold, they will want to be warm. the reason that they havnt rebeled is fear.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think the proles rebel because they don’t know that they can. The Government has done such a good job controlling them that they don’t realize that all of them out together could overtake the government. They also don’t understand that their life is bad. What they have is all they ever known. They don’t realize that they should have it better or even what better is.
ReplyDeletei think that the people in society should not fear their government. The government should fear the people.
ReplyDelete@Matt- When you said that love in undefinable it reminded me of when, last year in Mr. Maness's class he stated "There are three things that don't exist, 1 demensional figures, love,..." i cant remember the last thing. But anyways maybe the way the people were living in the book, doesn't really involve love, so love is just tossed around like any other word.
ReplyDeleteThe old man cannot recollect main ideas of the past, just snips of memory. It shows the reader what a man from the past can become in the society of the future.
ReplyDeleteIt shows how Winston's thinking and wanting more will drive him to do anything
ReplyDeleteThe old man was simply no help and didn't really know how to answer Winston's questions.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the proles are scared of remembering the past because the past was so much better than the present. That could have been why the old man was trying to avoid Winston's question.
ReplyDeleteSince the old man couldn't remember much, I think it was kind of a waste of his time going there.
ReplyDeleteOrwell put the old man in the book to show that the proles are extremely brainwashed. They can’t understand that their life’s used to be better and if they all came together they could have a better life, yet no one knows that.
ReplyDelete@Madeline--The old man was not a complete waste of time because he opened Winston's eyes to how corrupt the society of the proles was.
ReplyDeletei think that George Orwell added in the old man to appeal to the readers in the 50s. it could be them if this dystopia came into existence.
ReplyDeleteWhat's strange to me is, how other people in the Party (the age of the old man) don't think like Winston does. Or why don't they remember the past as well?
ReplyDeleteIn 1984, God is Big Brother because that's all they look up to. This is just like in several of the axis powers, where religious beliefs were frowned upon.
ReplyDeleteI think that old people are kind of the keys to the past, because they know what happned in the past, so would you say the older people in 1984 are purged more then others? Or are frowned upon?
ReplyDeleteI think that since the majority of the people know that history is being changed so if the old man let the truth be known then the people would doubt the government. So the people and the proles will have the ability to learn from the past and see how bad their situation is.
ReplyDeleteIn our world we praise our own lord. Their lord is big brother and tjey follow his commands reguardless of what is right and wrong
ReplyDelete